|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
5.68.61.25
I'm new to this Tubes forum so please excuse my ignorance.My power amps are Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs. The original valves / tubes are 12 years old and I think it may be time to change / upgrade them. The amps aren't as silent as they should be for my 102 dB efficiency Avantgarde speakers.
OK - the original valves are (one each per amp):
Psvane 845 simply labelled "Hi-Fi Vacuum Tube 845" (I think these are actually not the original tubes)
E88CC marked "Siemens 08 246 Made in Germany"
5687 marked "Raytheon USA CK5687WA"After speaking with possibly the only UK supplier, I'm about to buy:
A matched pair of Psvane 845T Mk II at
Edits: 02/13/16 02/13/16Follow Ups:
Hi I also use an 845 based amplifier. It's the Italian Mastersound Reference 845 amp or integrated amp ---{ depending on switch setting }--- that you see in the photo above. It came stock with a 12AU7 I no longer recall, Tung-sol 5687 and Billington Gold 845 tubes. At the time this photo was taken I replaced the generic 12AU7 tubes with Mazda "chrome plate" 12U7WA tubes, but it was when I replaced the Tung-sol 5687 tubes with Bendix 6900 a couple months later ---{ my roommate who felt anyone who spent more than $500 to $1000 on an entire audio system was nuts, knocked on my shut bedroom door and asked what I did because my "stereo" sounded so much better }--- the amp was sonically transformed, not just improved, but improved to such a high level it literally sonically transformed the amp from a great sounding amp to a world-class amp and later I finally replaced the Billington Gold 845 tubes with Shuguang 845B tubes.
I can tell you quite honestly that replacing those 5687 tubes with 6900 tubes will amaze you with the level of sonic improvement they make! I made that change in 2003 and here it is 13 years later and I'm still using those Bendix 6900 tubes! This is NOT your usual tube improvement ---{ I don't care what other tubes you've replaced - exchanging the 5687 for 6900 is more like making a major audio component upgrade such as a $1K to a $10K preamp }--- I highly suggest you do this with your amp as well! The other tube replacement I made that was very, very significant ---{ no it wasn't the level of improvement the Bendix 6900 tubes made, BUT upgrading to the Psvane WE845 tubes, made more of a sonic improvement than any other tube upgrade I ever made other than the 6900 tubes did }--- In fact I owned NOS, RCA 845 tubes in the past and I believe these WE845 are their sonic equal if not perhaps their sonic better! I wrote a review of the WE845 tubes that you can read at the link below.
Finally although I don't use E88CC tubes in my amp. My Goldnote Stibbert CDP, which I use as a transport into my Audio-gd Reference 7.1 DAC, does use E88CC tubes. After 2 months of trying virtually every 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 and Cca tube in the 6DJ8 family of tubes. I was given a pair of inexpensive ---{ $30/pr then }--- Russian Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n tubes. I was amazed to discover these inexpensive 6H23n tubes gave the $400 to $600 a pair Telefunken Cca tubes a serious run for the money. Yes I believe the Teley get the "nod" by a very small margin, but when you consider the Voskhod's sell for $30 and the Teley's sell anywhere from $400 to $600 a pair! Well it makes buying the Voskhod 6H23n a no-brainer. Just don't buy the Reflektor 6H23n, 6H23n-EB or 6H23n-EV the plates are different and they're sonically very different!
Some my recommendation for you is this:
replace the E88CC with Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n tubes
replace the 5687 with Bendix 6900 tubes
replace the 845 tubes with WE845 tubes
Doing that will sonically transform your Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocks amps into the best sounding Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocks you've ever heard...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers
Price of those have gone into the effing nuts area. I tried the Bendix in my MFA amps and after a week or so I determined there was not enough of a difference to keep them there and went back to the Amperex 7119 made in Holland. The 7119 will cost only 10% of a 6900. Perhaps in your amp the 6900 is worth the price. regards, Dak
Edits: 02/15/16
Yes DAK every component is different and hence the sound a tube makes in two different amps will sound different! Not being DIY-savy, I had to be able to just pull the 5687 and replace it with the 6900 tubes. I was told the 7119 or maybe it was the 7044 was NOT a direct, drop-in replacement tube like the 6900 tube is for a 5687! So unless the OP is DIY knowledgeable and can change the pinouts he's out of luck like I was. But it worked out great because I love those 6900 tubes!I'm listening to: Holland by Beach Boys
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers
Edits: 03/02/16 03/02/16
Otherwise they would not work in my MFA amps.
Thanks Tom for your helpful reply. I've read your WE845 review and a few others comparing 845T II and WE845 on the Psvane forum http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/category/review/845-t-feedback/
In view of the prohibitive prices of the WE845 and the 6900 (neither of which are available in UK), I'll pass on the basis that they may be overkill in a relatively inexpensive amplifier. However the Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n is sensibly priced (but unavailable world-wide at present I think) so I'll keep an eye open for a future batch of these. The nearest I could find are these:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/bbs_tubes_os.html - 3rd down "Used-Pulls"
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XVoskhod+6H23n.TRS0&_nkw=Voskhod+6H23n&_sacat=0 - several offerings but none exactly matching.
I've left an Ebay alert in case these turn up. Meanwhile I should be getting the "Gold Lion 6922/e88cc Select Matching", "General Electric 5687WA" and 845Ts tomorrow. Do you have first-hand experience of these 2 small tubes? Maybe they're almost as good as the ones you recommend!
Thanks
Peter
Hi Peter!
Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I had forgotten about my post to you. As much as it pains me to say this, the "Gold Lion 6922/e88cc won't touch the Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n tubes sonically! IMHO only the $400 to $600 a pair Cca tubes actually give them a run for the money and actually slightly edge them out sonically.
As for the General Electric 5687WA tubes I have tried virtually every 5687 tube you can name in my amp and NONE of the 5687 tubes touches the Bendix 6900 tubes sonically, sorry about that.
While I haven't heard the 845Ts personally, I know people who have and then heard my WE845 tubes and they say there was no contest as to which tube sounded better.
You have time so save some coin, stay in touch with me ---{ you can email me directly at thetubeguy1954@yahoo.com }--- and maybe I can help you out with your search?
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers
I can not speak to the 845 tube other than watching the prices over the last 20 years, I wish I started collecting them back then. As for the 5687, I found that in my MFA M60 (push pull kt88) amp the 5687 driver tube had a much darker sound than the Amperex 7119. Which sounds airy with much better highs and shimmer to cymbals, etc. For the 6dj8 type I think it is hard to beat the Valvo or Amperex or Telefunken e188cc. regards, dak
Thanks DAK. Are you saying the 7119 can be use in place of the 5687 without any circuit changes? I may get a pair if that's the case.
There's a UK-based supplier with Amperex 7119s (US made - not Dutch) in stock for £25 each. Is this something I should go for?
Peter
Hi Peter, in my listening experiences the 7119 sounds better than any 5687 that I tried and I am pretty sure I tried every manufacturer. If you think about what that little tube has to do as compared to its physical size, it is a very hard working tube. Truly a marvel of engineering. The 7119 is a drop in replacement, no worries. I think the Dutch made are a little more refined, but both the Euro and USA made tubes look exactly the same so I am not sure where the audible difference would come from. Since you have a SE amp it would be an interesting comparison. cheers, Dak
I'm sure the amp came with Shuguang 845's, which are actually quite nice.
The driver tubes may still be just fine, it might be a good idea to have them tested before replacing them.
> The driver tubes may still be just fine, it might be a good idea to have them tested before replacing them.
Thanks for the suggestion, but more easily said than done!
Who in UK can test valves? Probably one or two places that actually want to sell new ones. I've now ordered a full set of replacement valves as my per OP and should get them in a couple of days. OK, it's costing me £400 or so, but I can roll my output ones (original cheap Shuguangs, current Psvane HiFi and new Psvane 845T Mk IIs) as well as the new driver tubes vs the NOS originals. I'm looking forward to it! Hopefully my amps will enjoy a new lease of life with lower noise and significantly improved musical enjoyment.
Peter
I really like the Tungsol BP 5687. DIY overdrive pedal with 5687 tubes, very nice slow, controllable OD tone.
5687 tubes tend to be microphonic. I found Sylvania 5687s to have the least tendency toward microphony. In a power amp this may not be an issue. In my preamp it absolutely was.
Check with Grant Fidelity( Canada). I know the Psvane 845T's were shipped from China direct to me for $399. Not sure if that applies to England however. FWIW, the 845WE's are worth the extra $300 if your budget allows.
Sorry, just to clarify. That's $399 a pair for the T's, $699 a pair for the WE's.
Are the 'WE's Western Electric NOS?? I didn't know that they were readily available at any price. If they are I would think that they would be more desirable than the currently available stuff which seems to be mostly Shuguang's in one disguise or another. That said I haven't read a comparison of the WE vs Psvane or similar 'better' Chinese tube.
Does anyone know if that expensive German tube is still being made?
No, Western Electric never made an 845. They made the 284A. I believe Elrog( German) makes an 845 as well, but it will be at least twice as much per pair as the WE. The WE is a Psvane tube. To my ear it's the best of the Chinese 845 offerings, but then again I've only heard the it in comparison to the Psvane 845 TII and Shuguang 845B.
I had never heard or read anything about a WE 845 so I was surprised to see it referred to. The Psvane is a currently made Chinese 845, why do they call it a WE, with no WE 845 ever been made to fashion their tube after??
The only other issue is the 5687. I also use those on my Consonance Cyber 800 monoblocs. I found was told etc.that Tung Sol was supposedly the 'original 5687' so I went with them and had no microphonics issue. Obviously If the tubes you have are not good it makes perfect sense to use a different brand. My driver tubes are 6922s, which were JAN GEs I think but I rolled in my preferred tube of that type the Mullard CV-2943.
OK, this statement is what I've read on the Grant Fidelity website. " The WE 845 is voiced to sound like a Western Electric 284A and built to RCA 845 specifications thus making it fully compatible with 845 amps." Also in regard to Western Electric, Line Magnetic has been cloning various Western Electric designs for years.
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: