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Want to get some new 6SL7 tubes for my old RCA amplifiers, and am thinking to try the Russian ones, due to their excellent price but for one concern.
I restored another RCA amplifier some time back which used 6N7 tubes.I ordered some Russian ones on eBay, straight from Ukraine.
When they showed up, they were ALL microphonic.. by contrast the old GE and RCA metal ones are much better. I ended up being able to use one of them, but had I known how they would perform I would have preferred to just find some NOS American tubes.
Does this concern extend to 6SL7s too, or are they better? I've had good luck with other Russian tubes in the past, but mostly Svetlana tubes.
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Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
This was after a search of eBay that took about 15 seconds.
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Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
Because $63.99 plus $29 shipping is nearly $100 USD for a pair of *used* tubes, which may end up having a cathode to heater short, or less life in them than claimed. I just don't see it as a responsible way to spend money, this sort of sticker shock is what made me look at Russian tubes to begin with. If I pulled them from some old piece of gear, which I got cheaply, then sure I would be happy to use them - but at this price? no way
If my stereo used only two 6SL7s then it may be viable, but these comprise less than 10% of the tubes, and all together the system has to be reliable and within reason cost effective to operate.
Why fool around with any of them when there are these
RCA 55691's. Mil-spec and good for 10,000 hours.
I'm glad I have a large stash.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Now those are cool... really like the RCA logo. I have some "special red" 6SJ7s which have a similar premium look to them, and great performance too. Kind of like getting the well aged whiskey in a nice bottle instead of the cheap stuff.
The RCA 5691 are widely considered to be the best 6SL7 type. Google RCA red base 5691 and see what ya come up with. I have a few of 'em.
I have a nice little batch of 5692's as well, but alas, those are not for sale.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
A few? I'd say so :)
Open market value is tending towards stratosphere, but these definitely check all the boxes for what one wants from a tube.
These look pretty decent for 22 bucks delivered. Might be lower with best offer option. Top rated seller too.
You're presumably looking at the Moscow made 6Н9С?
That factory made good stuff, and you don't have to pay Ukraine prices.
You can choose to kiss goodbye to the whole microphony thing, and wire a WIRED ENDED version internally across the old base.
It's a tiny bit smaller!!
This one is called 6Н17Б-В/6Н17Б-ВР which is like a US made 6112 on viagra & steroids.
I was looking at the widely distributed reflector version, but now that I see this one I kind of want to try it, I like how it looks already. What was the name of the Moscow factory? I will have to look up data on the sub mini tube too, also interesting!
If it helps.-
I see you can buy pretty much anything you like from:- eg.
http://tubestore.ru/catalog/rus-tubes/6n9m-melz
(I have no connection whatsoever!)
I imagine you can send sms text because it's a mobile number.
+7 926 228 9318 and has an e-mail info (at)tubestore dot ru
Btw:-
Don't imagine for a minute Russians are a bunch of savages and don't buy "hi end" equipment for mega bucks, they're just as stoopid as in the west now.
The same hype about vinyl, miracle speaker cables, power conditioners, 50kg turntables, "ROUND PLATE 6SN7" and all that crap arrived like a disease here too, and it wasn't yesterday!
(The clever guys are to be found on the DIY forums, and some of the circuits are very good.)
I auditioned a local made amp about a year ago which had all transformers wound locally, and all local construction. Actually I wasn't impressed, like most stuff I heard recently.
...99% of the "hi end" equipment I heard over the last 15 years sounds simply dreadful.
I wasn't intending to become an expert on Russian valves.
My experience is more in recording.
After I saw the vast amount of disinformation and nonsense surrounding Russian build quality, I found it interesting.
There is a lot of old stock about still.
I have no idea what was sold to you from Ukraine, maybe the dirt cheap "Reflektor" version below?
Most outfits in Ukraine & Bulgaria are just selling old USSR stock which has ended up all over Eastern Europe in vast quantities very very cheap.
People in war torn regions like Ukraine are trying to make a quick buck while their local currency goes down the toilet.
In 1 year alone the Rouble has halved in value, but of course that just means bigger profits for the Tung sol, Mullard, Genalex fake brand.
Here is some idea of what was available from Moscow & St Petersburg.
Next is the Xpo-Pul factory (also known as Reflektor) in Saratov before it became controlled by a yankee.
Eg. As far as I'm aware, one of the 6L6 Sovtek is the same as the design as from 50 years ago, so I can't see why the 6SL7 would be any different.
I'm far from being convinced this is true,-
It sounds far like just more marketing hype from a company that STOLE the Svetlana name and marque image, so that the real Svetlana couldn't even use their own name.
"New Sensor is an American corporation and since taking ownership of this factory has been steadily improving the quality of current production tubes."
If you look at the price USD $39.95 from one company, and "6SL7 Tungsol Gold $103.06" then I know personally what I think.
The old reflektor version above costs about 1 USD at the moment off the shelf.
That's about 100 for the price of one "Tungsol" rebrand.
I had a brief look at the Russian forums.
The Russian 6SL7 & 6SN7 was made from the 1950s until 1980s in vast quantities.
It was easy to find any number of the Melz ones for about 2USD recently, some as low as 50 cts.
The Russians had their own high quality film & recording industry to look after in Moscow (Mosfilm and Melodia), as well as the consumer Audio equipment centred on Riga Latvia.
Clearly if their parts had been inferior, we should have known about it by now.
The USSR block Lomo and Gefell microphones are highly regarded, but almost unknown in the west.
The wire ended valve I showed you before were often designed to survive 500g and the space & defence programs.
I doubt very much you will break one never mind find it microphonic!
Hi. I'm new here. For what I understood, Those tubes I have are "garbage"...
Hi Ivan,
Thank you very much for your overview! I have some experience with Russian tubes and equipment, so I am not totally a stranger to the fact that the USSR produced some excellent equipment. I have a re-build priboi amplifier (75w version), and after some modifications to the driver stage and replacement of the terrible electrolytic caps I am very pleased with the sound. I also have a GZM series Latvian made phono cartridge I am quite happy with on a second system. I have seen Lomo speakers, (would love to hear their theatre systems) and heard some amazing DIY efforts (using local materials) while travelling in Belarus.
it is really interesting to know that Svetlana made a 6SL7. I am going to have a look at the website you quoted, it looks like a great source.
I should note that although the 6N7 tubes I bought are a disappointment, I had excellent luck with the EF86 svetlana equivalents, and the G-807. I by no means dismiss Russian tubes in general, but understand they must be evaluated on a case by case basis.
Best regards
Max
Svetlana no longer make valves.
The EF86 you cite is obsolete.
They now became SED since their name and brand got stolen and ceased consumer production.
that makes all other Svetlana valves that are obsolete.
("Svetlana".com ie. "new sensor", is NOT the same company. I have a strong suspicion to be confirmed, the IP came from St Petersburg for a lot of the production in Saratov.
This would explain rather a lot, once I guess Svetlana SPB became totally p..ssd off! Nothing annoys companies more than having IP and names stolen!)
St Petersburg is still a great city of 5 million people, with a large population nearby with a lot of expertise in many domains.
In Russia they say SPB is the head, NN are the lungs.
Nizhny Novgorod used to be one of the main engineering motors of Russia.
A lot of the optical industry are made both in SPB and relatively nearby Vologda centre of excellence.
Russian optics are world class, and very cheap.
My lenses are made in Russia, the titanium from Russia, made into frames in China then reimported, but still costs 1/10 of the price in Europe!
You may not know this.
Saratov is only 850 000.
For engineering, SIZE, IP, and skills do matter.
Oh, I meant the svetlana factory in st Petersburg and their soviet era production, not
Their 21st century products. Although I did have a set of their pre new sensor EL34s in the late 1990s and was impressed.
From what I understand, quite a lot of production rejects from Svetlana found their way onto the market....
Probably this couldn't happen in the 80s and 90s? Who knows?
It's an ongoing syndrome in any production environment, as production winds down for production "not deemed to have any future", quality control usually ends up going to pot, then a lot of rejects stop being rejected.
Once a factory production line is dismantled with all it's "Special ways/kludges of solving weird and wonderful problems", big economies of scale with certain metal suppliers, then you will never really do it again quite like that.
If you then start with eg. a valve design which came from an entirely different basis and mess about modifying that to end up being something different, with people set in their ways....
Lots of valves were made after the British invention of radar, because there's nothing that concentrates the mind quite as well as to be shot at or bombed, or simply in the USSR being shot for being an enemy of the people.
It's a good old tradition which seems to be enjoying a remarkable comeback just now.
Even NOS American made 6SL7's can be microphonic.
They are relatively inexpensive. I recommend buying some extra, and culling out the microphonic ones.
NOS GE 6SL7s are decent, easy to find, and CHEAP.
My two favorite 6SL7 tubes are the Tung-Sol USA oval black plate black glass and the Ken-Rad clear glass black plate.
Steve
That's what I thought too, but antique electronic supply wants $30 for a NOS 6SL7 now! And prices on eBay are nuts too... Last time I bought them I paid about $6.00 each. That's why I am looking into foreign alternatives.
Try flea-bay.
Steve
If so I put together a pair... Both are identical except labels, one says Rogers the other GE, but based on looking at pictures online they appear to be RCA. Good sound too.
I wouldn't use 6SL7 for hi-fi, but very interested in a B-15 circuit. So I'd be very interested in views of how it sounds in guitar and bass amps.
How come not for hi-fi? It's not a lot different than a 12AX7 performance wise, especially if you aren't using it in a low noise application.
For guitar and bass amps, I've used Tungsol or Sylvania 6SL7WGT tubes. Pretty good success --- tone wise and quiet service. If the tube is any bit noisy, the combo amp will rattle these octal tubes to pieces.
Mil spec, brown phenolic base. I like the black plate, big chrome tops. Kinda hard to find good NOS, these days though...
Bet they'd sound pretty good in hi-fi apps.
"If the tube is any bit noisy, the combo amp will rattle these octal tubes to pieces."
Just wondering what you mean here. I'm a bass player and just renovating a Selmer Treble n Bass, which is close to a Fender Bassman circuit. I was wondering about making the second input a 6SL7 like the B-15.
Do you mean 12AX78 are more rugged, or less microphonic or what exactly?
Thanks for your informed input, as always!
In my experience, I've had octal front end tubes get noisy or microphonic a bit easier than their 9-pin mini counterparts. Esp high mu ones, like 6SL7GT.
I think that long plated tube are more susceptible to microphony.
I collect 6SN7s, with the earliest incarnations (the GTs, Ws and As) are notoriously microphonic . I found out that my collection had many microphonic tubes that weren't picked up/heard as the driver in an integrated tube amp I was rolling these tubes in. It was only apparen't when I got an AES AE-3 preamp with the 6SN7s playing a crucial role in the amplification circuit.
As it turned out several of these tubes sounded great despite the microphony. If the microphonics are only heard when tapping the tubes, it seemed to work well. I know I and some other people think that it actually gives the sound a little more depth and sound stages a bit better. All I am sure of is that unless it is so bad that it causes a feedback loop, and you don't play drums on your tubes while playing music, they work fine with IMHO. The bad side of course that I can't sell them off without noting this.
That's my experience.
8^)
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