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In Reply to: RE: Cryo Treated posted by waterfall on October 11, 2015 at 21:51:17
.... a long while ago with a closely matched pair of 1961 Sylvania-branded Mullard Blackburn 5AR4/GZ34's from Andy at VTS (they were also date matched, as I recall: f32 B1E4. Beautiful tubes). Both Sylvania/Mullard rectifier tubes were absolutely identical sounding to my ears beforehand, being employed in a ModWright PS 9.0 psu for my ModWright Sony XA5400ES, a very nice sounding player.
I also did the same comparison with some matched and newly issued steel pin Electro-Harmonix 6922s, one pair cryo'ed, one not, in my GlassWare Unbalancer output stage I had installed in the Sony XA5400ES player as the DAC's output stage.
Super short version:
Yes, the cryo treatment made, to my ears at least, a very nice, solid improvement in both the Sylvania/Mullard and the Electro Harmonix tubes' performance versus the non-cryoed controls. Definitely worth it to me. But maybe not to others; YMMV; and all that subjective qualifier stuff, of course.
Long version:
A pair of the EH 6922s and one of the closely matched Sylvania/Mullard rectifier tubes were both cryo-treated using a 72 hour cryogenic protocol consisting of 24 hours down to -300F, then a 24 hour hold at -300F, then another 24 hours up to ambient. The cryo treatment was through Ron Sheldon at Cryoset in Milpitas, California. I was VERY skeptical. And scared of messing up a superb tube like the Mullard 5AR4/GZ34, to be honest. But I went ahead and did it. What the hell, life is short, right? This was a while back, by the way.
I have to admit, I was very impressed by the result. The cryo treated Mullard rectifier tube was simply better sounding to my ears and in my system, than its non-cryo'ed closely matched mate: more open, natural, extended and definitely more detail, simply a nicer sounding tube, once all was said and done. As for longer-lived, no opinion there. Only time will tell. So far, so good.
As for the EH 6922s, the same result was had: the cryo treated 6922s were much more natural sounding, with more extension, better detail, much more openness and air, once again, just a better sounding tube all the way around.
I was convinced: cryo treatment made all the tubes, the pair of EH 6922s and the Sylvania re-branded Mullard 5AR4, sound better than their stock, non-cryo'ed equivalents. Easy to hear in my system. YMMV, though.
I have since bought many cryo treated tube sets from Ron at Cryoset. None were 'cheap', but all sounded quite superb, such as 6N1P-EV Voskhod Rockets; a Genalex GZ34 (that surprised the living crap out of me with its near-Mullard performance!); some matched pairs of Electro-Harmonix 6922s (gold and steel pins) and 12BH7s ; some matched Golden Lion 6922s (pricey, but VERY nice!); some matched Anod 6N1P-EVs; some matched Electro Harmonix 6SN7s (gold and steel pins), and some others from JJ that escape me currently. None have failed so far, despite a lot of usage, as I leave my system usually on 24/7/365.
Btw: ALL tubes from Cryoset cost me full pop, except when I could use a Cryoset 10% off coupon (which he should really send out more often, IMHO, as saving some pennies here and there really matters to a lot of folks, including me.)
Lastly, I will NEVER argue with anyone about what they subjectively perceive, BUT if you have never even tried this comparison, do not be an armchair quarterback and open your yap based on 'theory' or 'belief'. Flaming/criticizing from complete experiential ignorance shows utter egotism and arrogance, as you have NO experimental data to speak from. I do have that data, and my post hits EXACTLY what the original post asked, information-wise.
Any criticism from ignorance shows contempt for the very basis that this forum rests on: openly sharing our experiences and knowledge. But if you HAVE done the same type of comparisons, I would really like to hear what you thought, and would welcome such, even if in direct contradiction of my own experience. You hear what you hear, and you won't find me being critical of any contrary opinions in that regard. It's called respect, and civilized people show it to one another.
Happy listening to all!
WS
Follow Ups:
now I'm gonna have to,try the cryod Genalex 5AR4. I need a pair of them too.
...and I suspect you will find what I found: the Cryoset Genalex takes an already great new offering and just bumps up the performance a number of notches, especially in the detail and speed areas, along with air and spaciousness, which is where the Genalex can use just a touch of help, compared to a real, NOS Mullard. The cryoed Genalex GZ-34 was a boat-floater in my system. I loved it.
Of course, Mullards, are, well, Mullards. What can you say? A classic tube, deserving of every single word of praise and more.
But that Genalex, well, when Ron was telling me, "Winston, give one a shot, you'll be pleasantly surprised, and you might even retire that Mullard", I was VERY skeptical, being a Mullard man. But he was right. The inherent sweetness and musicality of the Genalex was simply enhanced by the addition of so much air and openness and speed, which really made magic. Not that the stock Genalex was a slouch there, at least from what I have read. Jim McShane and others would know infinitely more about the stock Genalex GZ34 sound, but I know for a fact he loves that tube, and I am now a total fan as well, except I am limited to the cryo'ed version in my experience. But I'm sure the stock Genalex is a killer, too. If Jim says so, I'm sure it is, too.
I just love the fact that these are all easily available tubes that Cryoset improves (IMHO) by the cryo process, so we have an unlimited supply, in a sense, thereby allowing anyone to really get near unobtanium sound for a lot less cash.
And as the years roll by, the Mullards will simply get dearer and dearer. While the cryoed Genalex should stay roughly the same price, which is pretty reasonable, all things considered.
I get excited about current production tubes because they are made here and now, and they will not 'run out' (hopefully), unlike the NOS beauties that we all know, love and covet. I adore the NOS, too. But to know I have a basically unlimited supply of great current production tubes that will not break the bank is great comfort for a tube nut like me.
Let us know what you hear. I think you'll be very pleased. I was.
Best of luck, and keep in touch. Agree or disagree, I want to hear what you heard and thought about them once they break in. Let them run for a good 100 hours or so before making any judgements, though. They really open up and sing with some time on them, as does most any fine tube.
All the best.
Cheers!
WS
Winston,
Thanks for the follow-up. I'll put them on my shopping list, although my motivation is tempered at the moment by the fact that I have no system to listen to. My Acoustat servos are with Mr. Savuto of Analogue Associates for a major rebuild, and my Primaluna CD player is in the shop for repair. Not much I can do with only a turntable, preamp and some electrostatic panels. It's my Primaluna that uses the 5AR4's. It's a dual mono design right down to dual rectifiers. I've been using 5R4GYS's in place of the stock Chinese 5AR4's on Kevin Deal's recommendation. Those Philips 5R4's, if nothing else, won the battle on looks alone. Big coke-bottles. But in addition to looks, they sound really sweet too and a definite step up from stock. I've had my eye on those Russian 5AR4's since they came out, but have been on the fence because I've been so happy with the Philips rectifiers. Your recco is the nudge I needed I guess to get off the fence.
Since we're on the topic of Ron's wares, I can HIGHLY recommend the premium versions of the JJ small tubes he sells. The 802s, 803s, 5751 and 6922 are all winners and very much preferred to the Russian stuff in my system. The JJ 6922's are the closest in sound of all the new production stuff I've tried to my beloved Tele 6922's. I got a bad taste in my mouth for JJ a couple of three years back when their QA was for crap. The tubes sounded good, but two weeks use and they'd throw a hissy-fit. I started buying them again a year or so ago, and have not had a single issue with any of them. Dead quite and durable. Very happily using JJ 6922's as input to phono in my CAT SL1. The CAT loves them.
Best,
Mike
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