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I have an option to put either tube in my Dynaco ST-70 Latino kit. The tubes Bob included with the kit are great. I really - REALLY have no problem with them!!! Actually the driver tubes are NOS GE 12AU7's.
I listen to all types classical music streamed off my Marantz NA7004 streamer. So my needs are for tonal charm and fine detail. Which I feel I already do have with the present set of EL34's - (name unknown no markings).
My question is what would a set of KT-77's offer over the EL-34's in this amp?
charles
Follow Ups:
Hi, I hate to add further confusion but the Electro Harmonix 6CA7's has always sounded really good and tonally correct in a ST70 no matter what driver board that I had installed and isn't too expensive. I liked them more than a good quad of JJ KT-77's which I found to sound really good but on the thinner side. I can't comment if this is also true with the Gold Lion version. The 6CA7's hit a sweet spot and stopped me from swapping tubes freeing up my EL34 collection to be used in my guitar amps.
The EH 6CA7 is a superb value. New Sensor's "reissue" GEC KT77 is somewhat better sounding and is priced accordingly.
Now if JJ would get their Octal act together, people would reacquire the E34L option. When run a tad "hard" properly made E34Ls sound good.
Eli D.
Eli, it's 2015 and JJ's QC has greatly improved. ;-)
Can you suggest a reliable JJ seller who burns them in and carefully matches them?
Peter, I got mine from Tube Depot and they are being used in single ended amps. No issues with tube pin size etc. *I* find them to be a little darker and fuller than the GL KT77 and others on this forum have posted the opposite. Go figure.
Found the Gold Lion KT-77 to be better (or at least much more satisfying overall) than any EL-34
I ran in my Will Vincent ST-70 (which is a horse of a different color).
I tried about a dozen different brands of EL-34, from vintage Mullard to the best WOM current production as of 8 years ago.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
What does WOM mean?
Thanks- All I kmow is that I bought a quad of JJ KT-77s and one of them did a science experiment resembling the conditions when the planet was primordial ooze. Heard good things about the Gold Lions So I will try them. The lightning in a bottle BTW, took out at least resistor, melted the socket and burned a wire to the power button.
Steve
Edit: The amp my lightening storm in was not a Bob Latino amp. It was an Opera Consonance M100+.
Steve
The GL KT 77's are very good. You won't be disappointed. Jim McShane has them.
But, maybe Word of Board is more accurate. The JJ's were a bummer, nice tubes but ultimately undependable. Nice while they lasted, but didn't last. The GL ARE dependable and sounded a wee bit better. I DO miss tube rolling the ST-70!
Have fun!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I came up with "Women of the Moose".
with this referred to as WOM (as well as the band he formed).
But damned if I'm NOT going to google "Woman of the Moose"!!!!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
The best output tubes that I have found in the VTA ST-70 amps are the Gold Lion KT66's. The GL KT66's seem to have a little more output at the frequency extremes than most EL34's. They also have a nice holographic sound stage in these amps. The down side to these tubes is that they are a little on the expensive side. I have never tried the JJ KT66's but (and this is just my personal opinion) I don't think the JJ tubes are as well made as the Gold Lion tubes.
Bob Latino
Bob,
We've bought and installed two of your ST-70 input boards and love them. The question I have on your kits is the output transformers. How do they differ from the originals?
Please answer here or through private mail.
thanks,
Lee
Hi Lee,
The VTA ST-70 output transformers are the same size, shape and use a similar but not EXACTLY THE SAME winding technique as the original Dynaco output transformers. (interleaved/layered windings). How they are wound slightly differently is proprietary information. They have silicon steel M6 laminations. These output transformers are as good as or better than the original Dynaco output transformers. Mike Samra in testing them has found that they pass square waves slightly better than the original Dynaco output transformers. See link below...
Bob
nt
Great to hear from you.
I'm enjoying the HECK out of that kit!!! You did a wonderful job designing and packing it. I had no problems with the instructions. Couldn't be clearer.
I have to be honest. When I first opened that box and laid out the parts I thought what the heck did I get myself into. But once the solder fumes started I was HOOKED!!! It was a lot of fun - thanks!
I'm taking my time to write a review on your ST-70 kit. I want to do it justice and not rush it.
The tubes you included are top notch and I have no complaints. One of the perks of having tubes is rolling. So I want to take advantage of that.
Thanks for the suggestion and I trust your choice being you actually used them on this amp.
thanks
charles
Charles,
The other thing you should consider is to allow the amp to break in completely (100 - 200 hours of play time) BEFORE you change out any of the stock tubes. Trying out different tubes in your amp before the break in is complete is like trying to "hit a moving target". After 200 hours of play time the amp is fully broken in and the sound will pretty much stabilize. It is then easier to compare the sound of different tubes that you can use in the amp. The CENTER (initial voltage amplifier) driver tube affects both channels and is the least expensive way to make subtle changes to the sound of the amp. Changing out the two side (phase splitter/inverter) driver tubes has much less influence on the sound of these amps. You can use any 12AU7, 12BH7, 5963, 5814 or 6189 tube in any or all three driver positions. You can also mix and match these tubes with the only caveat being that the two side driver tubes should be of the same type.
Bob
The best value kit out there by far and 95% American made other than a few capacitors and sockets which you can't get anymore in new production.These are so much better than the original amps in every way from the iron to the milspec quality circuit board to wire quality and performance blows the original out of the water.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
The repro output iron is better than (not equal to) the originals? Wow!!!
There is some myth to 'old iron' just the way it is.
Bob's repro iron is that he uses..I put a 10khz sq wave thru both and his was cleaner.He doesn't use the same iron as everyone else does..I used a rotel SS amp with 5k non inductive resistors on the primary and ran a 10khz sq wave thru the original transformers which I have several of and one of Bob's and it was cleaner thru his..I was going to try a 20khz sq wave next.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
Edits: 09/15/15 09/15/15
They you very interesting for that information - Interesting!!!
A far as tubes go I was fishing around for some ideas for a Christmas present.
I like the amp as it is right now. So letting it break in would be a pleasure.
charles
some people praise the TOSHIBA 6GB8 as the ultimate EL34 substitute...
N.
The times, they are changing...
If you can go this route, I would definitely consider it. The KT-66 has a much better tone, than most EL34 types that I've used.
I have not used the new Gold Lion KT-66, so I can't comment on it. But, the original Gold Lion MOV/GEC KT-66 were awesome tubes.
I went from the stock EL34's in my Latino ST70 to Genalex Gold Lion KT 88's. Have really enjoyed this tube over the years. I think Bob Latino originally liked the 88 in the ST70 as well, but I believe he now likes the GL KT66. FWIW, I have a friend with a Van Alstine ST70 who prefers the GL KT77 over his previous EL 34's. These(the EL34's) may have been JJ's, but I'm not sure. I agree with SETdude. Spend a month or two with the stock set-up. You'll have a better handle on which direction you want to take the sound....if you want to change it at all.
I've tried JJ and GL KT77, and both are on the bright side, generally speaking. Being brighter, they may tend to reveal more detail, but some have commented that the GL KT77 can be a little lean sounding while I found the JJ KT77 intolerably metallic sounding and also kind of blurry. The GL KT77 is quite good but expensive, and I do find it to be spacious and more three dimensional and detailed. Maybe a different quad of JJ KT77 might sound better than the ones I had, I don't know.With EL34, you have more choices for voicing, depending on what you want.
My circa 2004 JJ E34L have really nice tone and palpability, but they were a bit rolled off up top.
Mullard reissue EL34 is a nicely focused, midrangy tube, not particularly tone rich but neither is it lean. Detail is good, along with the focus.
I have a set of Tung Sol EL34B in my Stereo 70 right now. After what I read about these, I was surprised to hear them sound so laid back and perhaps not so very well detailed. But, they have decent tone and are easy enough to listen to.
Edits: 09/14/15 09/14/15 09/14/15
That's interesting Peter. What amp were you using them in?
My two-year-old Dynakitparts Stereo 70, original 7199 circuit topology, with power supply and some other enhancements. Sounds great.
I own one as well and love it. I can add I really like the Tung Sol 6L6 G (Coke Bottle) reissues and use a NOS 5U4GB rectifier (for better bias control) and really like their sound. I have many other EL 34's (NOS "Winged C's, new production Mullards, etc) and change out every month or so for variety. I may try the Genalex KT66's soon just for fun!
The only way to know is to try them and once you do you won't likely go back to the EL34's. Just the way it is. But if you are happy with what you have...enjoy and don't change anything for at least a few months!
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