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Okay, Tube Mavens, what is the best sounding NOS 5Y3GT being used as a rectifier tube?
And please do not say, "The best sounding 5Y3GT is a Mullard 5AR4". I already bought two 5AR4s from Andy at VTS years ago, but one lost seal very recently and now I want a cheaper version rectifier tube that sounds great, and the 5Y3GT is one option I wish to explore (for me it is a drop in, so no problems there.)
So who has played with these little gems, and what did you decide was the best sounding 5Y3GT?
And are there any special aspects or rare features that would make certain ones especially desirable (i.e., things to look for in a 5Y3GT that help assure sonic excellence.) I am new to 5Y3GTs, and no nothing of their lore and legend.
The 5Y3GT will be used as the B+ rectifier tube in a ModWright PS 9.0 power supply (Dan at ModWright recommended to me today that I think about a sweet NOS Holland Amperex 5AR4, but at well over $200 a tube on eBay, I think I want to explore 5Y3GTs, please.)
Thanks in advance for any and all responses.
Cheers,
WS
Follow Ups:
As all the posts indicated, there are other options beside 5y3gt with all there respective virtues and considerations. In answer to your question about the best sounding 5y3gt, I recommend the Visseaux 5y3gt (better than most American versions short of Western Electric. I recall Tubeworld had some stock of these. The caveat to this recommendation is that the 5y3gt is an optimal tube type for your application. Be careful of using 5r4gys in a shared power supply the has a mix of directly and indirectly heated tubes as this often results in poor bass performance. This is not evident immediately but it tends affect the performance of the 5r4gy over time. Most people don't notice this as the deterioration in performance is gradual.
compared to JAN Phillips and RCA
If you can hear a difference in rectifiers, either the rectifier is substandard or there is a problem in your power supply (design or faulty part). What follows the rectifier is an extreme low-pass filter. If the power supply and the rectifier are up to snuff ANY properly functioning rectifier should sound like any other.
One respondent's answer of a slow-warmup tube makes sense, not for sound quality but for tube life of the other tubes.
Winter's coming on, so feel free to flame.
And I wouldn't use a VR anyway. Not even in a SET. Anywhere, chokes are more important, as is storage.No, not even when the VR features above the chassis? Good place fro another nice BIG PSU cap, IMO.
VR's just do limit storage and thus limit what we can achieve in low-ripple and slam terms. And, they wear out. Not a good thing in a PSU.
Mind you, this all came about when I was doing a rethink/rebuild of two LEAK St20s right when GZ34 VRs were either rapid-failure shite or $$$$$$ NoS / used.
Put me off VRs - permanently.
And then, ta da! - we had that unused 5Volt filament winding - to go DC 6.3V with for the 6DJ8 input tube that replaced the 12AX7. Plenty of 6.3V filament current reserve - so could run 6CG7s and a FET CCS for LTP splitters, bye bye to two more 12AX7s on each amp. Out went all three 12AX7s.
Not apostasy, just common sense.
Add a thermistor to the primary into the PT and perhaps another one on the B+/HT secondary and you've got all the slow turn-on you'll need.
Reliable too.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 09/22/15 09/22/15 09/22/15
snip.... If you can hear a difference in rectifiers, either the rectifier is substandard or there is a problem in your power supply (design or faulty part).
So there is a difference then, in the sound of a "non"-substandard rectifier and a sub-standard rectifier. I assume by sub-standard, you mean a lesser build quality....whether it be the quality of the materials used, or assembly assembly, ....or maybe just used up? But....there's no difference in sound between the rectifiers that lay between "non"-substandard and sub-standard?
It's just good or bad sound? Black and white. Real beer or NA?
What follows the rectifier is an extreme low-pass filter. If the power supply and the rectifier are up to snuff ANY properly functioning rectifier should sound like any other.
"I can't compete with the dead". (Buck W. 2010)
No flames here. If you cannot hear differences in different rectifiers, am willing to say you do not use speakers with a sensitivity of 105 db
So, you Will NOT hear what some are saying.
I cannot hear the difference on my Quads, but I sure can on my modified Khorns.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
ModWright recommended this tube for my PS 9.0 power supply. I really have nothing to compare it to, except the Sovtek 5AR4 that came with the unit. No affiliation with Upscale Audio except as a satisfied customer.
Thanks for the info, buddy. Lots of cool tubes to check out. I'm looking at them all, as I clearly have gotten some fabulous advice from the Tube Mavens here who share their knowledge so freely.
Awesome. Many Thanks.
Cheers,
WS
Those Philips 5R4GY's are really good rectifiers. Been using them in my Primaluna CD machine for nearly three years now. Way cool looking, but do be wary of the space they take up should you opt for a pair. They are quite tall. I see the price of them has doubled since I bought mine.
...on my ModWright PS 9.0 (i.e., sans cover), so no problems there. ;-)
Thanks for the tip.
Cheers,
WS
What, you didn't get the optional cover from ModWright with the hole already there?
Dave, my PS 9.0s are OLD, like eight and 5 years old, respectively (I own a ModWright Sony 9100ES and a Sony XA5400ES, as well. Thus, the two PS 9.0s.)
You know, like me and you: old ;-)
I have several 5Y3GT's and like the RCA. Bendix 6106 is also good but the best tube in the PS9.0 is clearly the Mullard..... sorry. The RCA's can be found on eBay reasonably.
The new reissue GL GZ34 is a very good tube reasonably priced.
I did mention in the OP that I do still have my NOS Mullard 5AR4. Part of a matched pair I got from Andy at VTS five years ago. I just had one of that matched pair die for no real reason. I wasn't using it and it lost vacuum while on the shelf in the box. One day its perfectly performing, so it gets 'saved' for a rainy day, but dies in its sleep in the ensuing years, like that hot chick astronaut that turns scary prune girl in the beginning of the movie, "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" (with Chuck "WTF" Heston starring in that immortal role.)
So, my 9.0 can have its Mullard, and eat it, too. There, there. Happy ModWright PS 9.0. It's good.
But I want to have another couple of back-up rectifier tubes that really has great sonics (like the Mullard) and killer longevity (only allegedly, as my dead, unused Mullard mutely attests to) as well.
Agree, the Genalex is a fine sounding tube (I have one from Cryoset in Milpitas, California. VERY nice sounding tube. Excellent, actually. Cryo treated, it gives the Mullard a run, but not exactly cheap. But excellent sonics for the money, IMHO.)
(I guess you could say I collect tubes, kinda... just don't tell my wife, she thinks I use them all.)
Anyway, thanks for the kind input.
Cheers,
WS
5Y3G or GT is a 5v/2A direct heated rectifier. It is the octal equivalent of an 80 ST or 280/380 GL (balloon type four pin rectifier from the early radio days). Because they are directly heated, as opposed to the indirectly heated 5V@2A 5AR4/GZ34 or 5V4/GZ32, they tend to sound sweeter in the mids. Another 5V@2A rectifier to consider, if it fits your chassis, is the much more rugged 5R4. If it fits the 5R4G looks way cool and should last a few lifetimes; possibly sounding better than the 5Y3...The indirectly heated varieties have lower voltage drop (thus higher B+ High Voltage) but also have two other benefits you may wish to consider. First, they take ten to 12 seconds to slowly come up to full voltage; the slow start that saves parts from inrush voltage/current.
Second, these types tend to yield a bit tighter bass than a standard 5Y3. So, tube rolling can be fun.You might want to reconsider your "new is better approach" as good, used Bendix 6106 and GZ32s might outlast NOS examples. Also, while used GZ32 or GZ34s can be had for under $100., used 5V4s can be obtained for $30. easily. The 5V4G, looking way cool, is a long lasting rect that will yield similar voltages than you got with the 5AR4. When a pricey NOS tube did not last for decades, good used ones should save you grief and keep you smiling.
Edits: 09/06/15
Thanks for a fine, informative post, IT. Awesome work. Cheers!
For me, it is all about sonics first, then reliability, if I have to rate them (but both are very critical, of course.)
I guess I would rather have a great sounding tube that lasts 10,000 hours than a lesser sounding tube that lasts 20,000 hours.
So, you like the 5R4s, eh?
You nailed the issue when you hit the "sweet midrange" button with the 5Y3GTs, but I ask, are the 5R4s as sweet in the mids as the 5Y3GTs, or do they have a wee bit harder, faster, more dynamic mids, at the expense of a touch of aggression on recordings that may likewise be engineered with a very slight 'tilt' in that regard, to make it appear to have more midrange 'sparkle' and 'detail'? Or is the 5R4 a better tube across the board? Comparison sonically?
Another big, "Thanks" for a fine post, and a "TIA" for any further help or guidance you can provide on the 5Y3GT vs. the 5R4!
Killer stuff, IT. :-)
Cheers,
WS
Thank You for your appreciation ! I always seem to enjoy the 5R4G as well as or better than any 5Y3 type. Since they are large ST size and still "under the collectability radar" you can get them for less than $20....Enjoy !
.
Somewhat along the lines of what IT suggested are 2 5Y3 variants with cathode sleeves: the 6087/5Y3WGTB and the 6106. The 6106 is 1 of the famous Bendix Red Bank types and it carries a substantial price tag. What you get for the money is incredible toughness and a very slow start. Bendix eschewed the typical alumina coated and folded heater in favor of a machined ceramic block.
Favorable reports have been received regarding New Sensor's latest 5AR4 efforts on the current production front. Contact AA sponsor Jim McShane for details.
If you are willing to work with a soldering iron, the series SS diode tweak allows inexpensive Sovtek 5AR4s to operate reliably. I've provided a link to a recent discussion of the tweak.
Eli D.
First, thanks for the great post.
Yes, I saw that nice mod for the Sovtek 5AR4 to tweak it to reliability. Already downloaded it to a pdf file this morning, and stored in my "Tube Stuff" folder. Very cool. Thank you. :-)
Okay, here is my Q:
Is the Bendix the best sounding of these 5AR4 replacements, or are there 5R4s or 5Y3GTs that sound better and are very sturdy, reliable performers?
If there are other brands that sound better and sell for less that drop in for the dead 5AR4 Mullard in my ModWright PS 9.0, I am all ears, for sure. Any guidance is always greatly appreciated.
But if the Bendix sound the best, IYHO, let me know. I already grok that the Bendix are about incredible reliability and a certain collectibility, but sound is what I am after, and then reliability, I must confess. Yet, I suspect most of these various tubes are quite well made and very reliable in their own rights. (Well, one can always hope....) :-)
IMO, what makes a particular rectifier sound good in a given piece of equipment relates directly to where the B+ rail voltage comes in. After all, there is no distortion spectrum to consider. Changes in the B+ rail voltage alter the operating conditions of the signal tubes, with an obvious impact on unit sonics.
The warning that no absolute best exists applies to rectifiers even more than it applies to signal tubes.
The 6106 is a 5Y3, not a drop in 5AR4 substitute. It exhibits high forward drop and is limited to 125 mA. of B+. Reliability and (presumably) longevity are excellent.
The GZ34/5AR4 exhibits low forward drop and can deliver 250 mA. of B+. The Sovtek variant gets the the B+ rail at the "same" place as the revered OS, but there is that damnable arcing at the top of the documented voltage range. The series SS diode tweak saves the Sovtek tube from the ash heap and does not interfere with quality OS tubes. It seems to me that installing 2X UF4007s is a "no brainer" and using any/all 5AR4 varieties that produce good results follows.
BTW, another consideration is filter capacitance size limit. Which type can take the largest value? You guessed it, the 5AR4. ;> )
Eli D.
Yes, those 5AR4s are very nice in many, many ways.
I spoke with Dan Wright of ModWright who affirmed to me that the 5Y3 and the 5R4s are both 'no problem' subs for the rectifier tube in Dan's PS 9.0 psu, so that's nice to know.
Thanks for all your wonderful insights, Eli. I learn so much every time I visit this forum. My head swims, but it swims in a good way (versus trying to make sense of the US Tax Code, or Chinese instruction manuals.) :-)
Cheers,
WS
But you don't want to know what sounds best after rolling a number of tubes in it.
.
5Y3s are cheap. Don't think you need to limit yourself to vintage new old stock (truly new in the box). I've been using used 5Y3s for year in several pieces, and only once, did one need replacement (failed to fire up). They're a great cheap rectifier and there's plenty of them around.
As far as sound....I just test them and run them. They all sound fine to me....but that's me. You may notice differences.
"I can't compete with the dead". (Buck W. 2010)
.
IMHO... the mil spec, slow warm-up Bendix 6106 and GE 6087 (aka: 5Y3WGT) are the best 5Y3GT sub-types.Best 5Y3GT I've used are the RCA, GE, and Raytheon black plates.
Edits: 09/06/15
Hi FL, I thought all 5y3 types were directly heated. cheers, Dak
Yes, both are in-directed heated rectifiers.
Not only slow warm-up, but rated to at least 60,000 feet!
8^)
Edits: 09/07/15
What is a reasonable price for a matched pair of NOS 1950s Bendix 6106s, black plates, triple micas? I have no idea what is reasonable, and what is a rip off. And 'reasonable' minds will differ about what constitutes reasonable, of course. But I am new to these type of tubes, so any info you can provide would be great.
I was originally looking for cheaper tubes (to please the wifey-poo), but I saw some 6106s described above as available, and thought, wow, those are expensive ($160/pr), but maybe they are not for such tubes. Any thoughts or comments would be really appreciated, FL.
Many thanks again for your prior guidance, and TIA for any info on the current query herein.
Cheers!
WS
The GE 6087 is a good alternative. Slow startup is a very nice feature. These tubes are not quite as $$$. They last.
Get good rectifier, they will last.
.
.... as that is just the type of first-hand experience I wanted.
Very kind of you to share your views. Much appreciated. :-)
Cheers!
WS
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