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i bought a pair of Elrog 300b tubes from True Audio in January 2015. They were used in power supply of my Viva Phono stage so did not see much stress. After a little over 6 mos of modest use one of the tubes no longer turns on. When i contacted True Audio here was the response:
"I am very sorry to hear that has happened. Unfortunately, your warranty is up. We spent 5 months fighting with the factory to get replacements for customers who were well within their warranty. We spoke to the factory on behalf of someone who was only days from the expiration and the factory hung up on us. They haven't sent us a shipment since February. If we had any control we would help you in any way we could.
We are so disgusted with them we will never sell their tubes again unless there are major changes. You can try sending them back to the factory but I don't have much hope. These people should not be allowed to conduct business like this. Its the worst experience we've had in 30 years.
I'm sorry I don't have more positive news."
Does anyone have any thgouhts on an appropriate course of action, if any, to take? I pretty much feel like i've been cheated - sell the sizzle when the product comes out and then too bad so sad when the product is a failure.
Thanks!
Follow Ups:
I'm curious to know how this story turns out. Given the cost of tubes these days (premier 300Bs, for example), the longevity of the tubes is analogous to the longevity of the relationship one'll need to form with a manufacturer.
Elrogs are no small investment.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
N/T
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Why not contact Dr. Schaffernicht directly?
Dr Klaus Schaffernicht
ELROG GmbH & Co KG
Poststreet 2
D-19249 Luebtheen
Germany
Tel/Fax: +49 (0) 038855 / 7850-0
Mobil: 0173 2171364
Email:info@elrog.com, www.elrog.com
Not good news. Thomas told me that had worked out their reliability problems. I have only used mine lightly, but if they fail, I will add to this warning.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Fortunately, I have a pair of WEs.
Well, I got a pair of ER300B from TrueAudiophile in March 2015. One of tubes has failed in June 2015. As per TrueAudiophile request I shipped tubes directly to the factory.
Here is from the email from TrueAudiophile regarding conversation with the factory:
... I went over it very calmly with him explaining he needs to honor the warranty. He refused. He then hung up on me....
I also email to Elrog stating tubes S/N, date of purches etc. No reply.
I have no comments !
Take your business elsewhere.
Best of luck
charles
I have a Viva Fono too, but, I use cheap Sovteks in it because the 300b's are being used as rectifiers and I doubt that higher quality tubes would make a difference in that capacity. I have NEVER had to change out those tubes as they are being put under very little stress.
You should contact the U.S. distributor of Viva products, Bob Clark. Last year, when I spoke with him, he said that the current Viva Fono uses 2a3's in the power supply and sound better. He said that the conversion is quite easy to do, although "easy" turned out to be not enough to counter "lazy" which is what I am, and I never bothered to pursue this further.
The first Elrogs 300 B to arrive in my aera failed also, and were properly replaced.
Edits: 08/11/15
why does it matter if they are used in the rectifier position?
The only 'sad' thing is that the US distributor appears to be getting NO support from the manufacturer.
I hope people who are customers of Tube USA and of Thomas in Germany will report what they hear from these two Elrog sellers.
Why do they say the will resume selling if the the factory does not honour it's warranty? Why would you screw over your customers if you know the factory does not replace defective tubes?
They should not resume selling the tubes unless all the tubes that developed a defect in the warranty period are replaced by elrog.
http://www.trueaudiophile.com/elrog-300b/
To infinity and beyond!!!
I would try calling Klaus. Something may have happened to him.
If you are out of warranty (which "Unfortunately, your warranty is up" kind of sounds like) there is no expectation that the seller will do anything. If you are within warranty you should get a refund if the product is not available.
In the EU you do (UK a year). I think we do down here in NZ as well. This supersedes the manufacturer's offering.
If this is indicative of their service level and product, they can kiss their business goodbye. What a poor way to be treated! So sorry to hear it happen to a fellow music lover.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
If you purchase a product without warranty, you get a product without warranty.
UPDATE: i spoke to George Lenz at TubesUSA who still sells the Elrog tubes and he said he will speak directly to Klaus about the poor treatment i received from True Audiophile and see what he can do. George has nothing to gain from this other than my gratitude and respect and he clearly still believes in the product. He is a true gentleman.
i do not hold out much hope as the tubes were (barely) outside their 6 mos warranty period. So technically Elrog is in the clear. That being said there are still MANY original Western Electric 300b tubes out there that are in excess of 50 yrs old and still working perfectly. One begins to see why these tubes are sought after. Meanwhile i am hearing the early failure rate on the Elrog tubes was around 30%. these tubes should not have been made public until the bugs were worked out.
BTW for those who think rectifier tubes do not affect the sound, think again. Try rolling your rectifier tubes and see what happens.
thanks to everyone for your input!
Is there any updates ?
BTW, my tubes are very much under the warranty and yet I got nothing from True Audiophile but recommendation to ship to the factory and nothing, not even reply to email, from the factory.
Tubes were shipped from "True Audiophile" on
*** February 20, 2015 , 10:57 am Picked up by Request
PORTLAND, OR 97217 ***
and failed tubes were shipped to ELROG on
*** 2015/06/15 17:51 MISSISSAUGA, ON Item processed ****
no more from George at TubesUSA. i honestly think True Audiophiile should be thrown under the bus on this…they cheerfully took our money and then weaseled out when the product went bad. i would certainly avoid them like the plague going forward.
i will probably start a post dedicated to warning folks off True Audiphile
Sure, True Audiophile had problem with the factory and flipped it to the customers (very noble !) but, at list they tried to resolve it ...The Elrog itself, having my tubes and all the information clear stating that tubes have failed during warranty, simply not responding.
Edits: 08/24/15
Elrog hung True Audiophile out to dry. Retailers reley on the manufactures for warranty support and are merely a middle man between the manufacture and the customer for warranty repairs. I feel for the customers who have in warranty failed Elrog tubes in which Elrog fails to support. IME, our anger should be directed towards Elrog, not the retailer.
Elrog has had poor reliability in the past and it would appear that has not changed. In the hi end luxury market, you rarely get a second chance. Bye bye Elrog, you are off my list!
You should take your concern over to Audiogon where there is a thread on Elrog reliability in which a representative from Elrog has gone on record stating that they will take of their customers.
Thanks !
BTW, on Audiogon forum reps from Elrog stated : "Our warranty covers 2 years on materials and manufacturing and a half year for the emission"
Elrog hung True Audiophile out to dry.
True Audiophile hung customers out to dry.
Hey guys
heres copy of email i recieved from ELrog two days ago.
Dear Roy,
ELROG will help you. Last week , I think, we have found the reason of the failure
In 2 max 3 weeks we have the test-results and a new tooling.
Reards
Klaus Schaffernict
So things are looking up!
BTW George Lenz at TubesUSA has been helpful in all this. He remains an ELrog dealer and is trying to help even though i was not his customer. Mark at TrueAudiophile on the other hand has simply encouraged me to go to the Internet to voice my complaints - which i have.
i would now voice a complaint about TrueAudiphile - they do not stand by their products as evidenced quite clearly in my case. i would never do business with them again.
cheers everyone, and thank you for the continued support
But wow, they really made you sweat. I think many of us would be interested to know what the actual manufacturing issue was (or whether it was an engineering issue).
Please update if you can when you get your replacements.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
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