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In Reply to: RE: Are you so insecure that you have to attack someone like this posted by maro on March 18, 2015 at 18:03:24
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Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
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I don't think anyone questions taking action - it is solely the manner in which the action was taken.
If you want to get into "good and evil", how many times have people with "special knowledge" (e.g., tube pros) bought tubes from old techs on fixed income (or their surviving spouse) for pennies on the dollar because they can take advantage of the situation?
Isn't there some saying about casting stones when you live in a glass house?
Do you have any knowledge of Kevin Deal screwing "old techs on fixed income" by buying tubes for pennies on the dollar? Any knowledge of any other well known tube dealers doing that? If so, who?
You may not like the word choice of Deal's post, but it seems to me he posted to warn about the potential for *us* getting screwed. Obviously he stands to lose if perception of tube dealers is negatively affected due to unscrupulous misrepresentations such as the example he displayed. But *we* lose if we buy bogus tubes from cheats - or sellers who may be misrepresenting what they're selling just due to ignorance, and as a tube buyer I'm happy to have them exposed.
It would have been just as easy and just as effective to post an alert to the problem without increasing the likelihood of inciting a mob by the manner of presentation.And, yes, it is wrong for one person to be singled-out and piled onto in this manner while others, named or unnamed, proven or unproven, have their own sins to ponder - and this doesn't really require proof, just innate knowledge of human nature and tendencies. Who really thinks the subject of this lynching is the only seller we might need to be concerned about, proven or not?
As far as dealer reputation, the O.P. is apparently in a pretty doggone strong and safe position to be able to publicly embarrass others and actually gain a following for doing it! He also seems to enjoy doing it right on his website - is this kind of thing really called-for? Does anyone have a right to be not as smart, or not as informed, or not as rich and powerful as some others are, without being bullied?
Edits: 03/19/15 03/19/15
Peter
He didn't gain a following for that..He gained a cheering section for some that know him..I think since both sides of the coin were pointed out,I think a few may have changed their tune a bit.We have all over reacted at one time or another and I definitely think this is one of those cases..This doesn't mean we shouldn't point wrong doing,on the contrary..We do need to be tactful tho because it reflects on us as individuals and how others see us as well.Showing a lack of reverence for the other person is never a good thing.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
Edits: 03/19/15
Fair enough, Mike, thank you for your comments.
I have tried to be real, rational and respectful in my discussion, which I hope came through as such.
Peter
I agree and I hope my comments have been perceived in that regard as well.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
Yessiree, as usual!
I'm surprised that page isn't ten times longer.
Just last week, I had to explain to a "profesional" that tubes needed to be pushed into the sockets all the way to work properly, after receiving a curt e-mail about "bad socket quality".
There was a woman last year who wouldn't stop calling me about a circuit she drew up that wouldn't possibly work (she hadn't built it). Sometimes she would call 5-10 times per day.
I think the Manley website has some better emails than Kevin.
I do not deny that some individuals can be problematic, and I can sympathize with anyone having to deal with a problematic person. In such cases, appropriate boundaries can nevertheless be set without holding them up for public ridicule - without putting them in a corner with a dunce cap on their heads for everyone to see. It just seems over-the-top to me that a business actually publicly embarrasses their customers.
snip: It just seems over-the-top to me that a business actually publicly embarrasses their customers.
Absolutely.
Apparently, that's some people's new approach to gaining customers and respect.
I doubt it works very well.
"I can't compete with the dead". (Buck W. 2010)
snip: It just seems over-the-top to me that a business actually publicly embarrasses their customers.
Yes,to me that would make me reluctant to deal with that business for fear of the fact they may not like you and then publicly soil your reputation.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
It appears to me that Kevin came on a little strong with his comments & could have handled the situation with a lot more class.
Doug
Indeed.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
Deal didn't get "in a pretty doggone strong and safe position" or gain a "following" by embarrassing others, he got there by being a reputable dealer and knowledgeable tube seller.His post was not only a warning but also an effort to "incite" complaints to Ebay so that buyers would not get misrepresented tubes. Hardly inciting a "mob".
"Who really thinks the subject of this lynching is the only seller we might need to be concerned about, proven or not?"
So by this logic if you know of one ripoff artist you should keep it to yourself until you know *all* ripoff artists? Jeez.
Bullied? As explained in the OP Kevin Deal attempted to educate the seller but was rebuffed and blown off, and the seller is still misrepresenting what he's selling.
Edits: 03/19/15
Deal didn't get "in a pretty doggone strong and safe position" or gain a "following" by embarrassing others, he got there by being a reputable dealer and knowledgeable tube seller.
That's really not the point, is it? We're not talking about how he got into his position. The point is how he uses his powerful position in a needlessly condescending and embarrassing manner.
His post was not only a warning but also an effort to "incite" complaints to Ebay so that buyers would not get misrepresented tubes. Hardly inciting a "mob".
Don't get me wrong, as I am not by any means trying to defend faulty sales listings. And, fair enough, if you don't care for the word "mob," I'll give you that. But, there's no getting away from the inordinate "pile-up" that resulted upon the one individual. How would you like it if a pile-up were on you after a caustic double-post, even if you were responsible for a mistake? The community could have been just as well informed, and ebay could have been informed, in a way that was not so caustic. As I recall, when you report potential fraud to ebay, as I have done in another matter, there is no "dirtbag" option you can click on.
"Who really thinks the subject of this lynching is the only seller we might need to be concerned about, proven or not?"
So by this logic if you know of one ripoff artist you should keep it to yourself until you know *all* ripoff artists? Jeez.
No, of course you don't have to keep it to yourself, and nothing I wrote suggested it should be kept to oneself until all "rip-offs" are known. I was pointing out a way to keep things in perspective, even if you can't prove other misconduct, which we know is surely out there somewhere. It gets back to the potential for unfairness when singling-out only one person while also getting back to the point of the MANNER in which things are done, which is a point that has been made abundantly clear.
Bullied? As explained in the OP Kevin Deal attempted to educate the seller but was rebuffed and blown off, and the seller is still misrepresenting what he's selling.
Sorry, but I don't think of calling someone a "dirtbag" as a good educational tool for anyone concerned. Yes, bullying - did you look at the link in my last post? I'll include it here again for your convenience.
Hope you don't get shafted on a hifi purchase, but after this it'll be tough to sympathize if you do.
Fair enough, I will not look to you for sympathy - you've got a "deal" on that one ;-)
nt
Nobody is denying Kevin's stellar reputation but you still have to be somewhat understanding with people..This seller is not unreasonable but I can almost bet Rick that if someone responded to you in a threatening way the first time,you wouldn't like it.
They assign teachers their own parking spot at the school where I teach and someone parked in my spot one day that was visiting the campus.I could have left a nasty note and said hey,you obviously should realize this is faculty assigned parking and you parked in my spot and if you don't move your car within the next hour,I'm going to have it towed.I did leave a nice note and even tho I was inconvenienced a bit,I didn't hoot and holler about it because the guy just didn't know as the assigned parking sign was hard to see being at the opposite end of the row and I knew this..
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
Edits: 03/19/15
nt
I figured you hadn't seen it.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
It's the vulnerable who are easy to pile onto, while the big fish always get away - with much worse things.
I think the point has been made. There is nothing righteous about a lynch mob.
I agree......
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