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and wow! Nice tube!! I have an Icon Audio Stereo20 PP, which has a single 12AX7 feeding two 12AU7 Phase splitters into 4 EL84's in push pull (hence the PP, of course).
I have tried all kinds of various 12AX7's. Seems like they all do something well, but it is hard to find that ONE tube that does everything right... I think this 5751 is the closest I have come yet to finding that.
Tight, punchy bass, mostly neutral tonal balance with just a hint of tubey goodness in the middle. Has a bit of upper mid range 'bite', but not too much. Everything has a lot of drive. And a smooth top end. Could be a bit more 'airy' and 3D. But all in all this was a gem of a find.
I like the GE version so much, I ordered a Sylvania 5751 just to compare....
Happy listening!
Andrew
Follow Ups:
If you haven't yet read it check out the document entitled Joe's Tube Lore, found in the Asylum FAQ section. Among other things it includes interesting ruminations about 5751 tubes...
Enjoy the fun!
Jim
"Never look at the trombones...it only encourages them." Richard Wagner
Interesting read! Also interesting that by pure accident I came to similar conclusions.
Even down to what my favorite 12ax7 is, and the best sounding tube in my collection.. an Amperex 'Bugle Boy'. The GE 5751 grey plate is very good, but just falls short of the Amperex.
Now, how a triple mica Black Plate 5751 might fare against the Amperex.. that is something I want to find out!
Andrew
That's the problem, so many tubes and so little time :)
"Never look at the trombones...it only encourages them." Richard Wagner
"GE JG-5751 WA Black Plates 3 Mica D Getter" does it right,and much better than the 2 mica..
and always liked them. They stay quiet, unlike the black plate version, and are very transparent. A nice long life also. I have all types of 5751 and the Sylvania I always came back to.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Yeah, they are some of the best of the 5751. You also should try the Mazda 5751 , triple mica, silver plate a beautiful sounding tube and rare as hen's teeth. cheers, Dak
Ouch! I found an example of that Mazda 5751, and it ain't cheap! The question is, is it worth it? If so, I might put off on buying several cheaper tubes, and invest into one good one.
Andrew
Well, the law of diminishing returns is in effect with such a rare tube. And it would be best if you purchase it from a dealer with a proven track record/excellent customer support, and a no nonsense return policy.
Jeez, the last time I listened to mine was more than a few years ago and I thought it sounded great but not earth shattering difference between the Sylvania GB5751, gold brand, also with 3 micas, that I was using previously. I don't even remember the equipment I was using to compare the tubes. Sorry, I could not have been more help, in that regard. It just sticks in my head that the Mazda and Sylvania GB were the best 5751 in my equipment. cheers, Dak
Were also sold as Radio Shack's life time guaranteed tubes
I have this in a black plate version, though I think there may also be getter differences in the black plate tubes. It was the best of the 12ax7-type tubes that I tried in my Rogue M-180s.Edit: I looked it up in my email, what I have is the "GE JG-5751 WA Black Plates 3 Mica D Getter", which I got on ebay.
Edits: 03/11/15
Not necessarily the best (what is), but the GE 5751 is my bogey tube to which all others are measured. Yeah there are better , but there are also worse. Cost is reasonable and NOS supplies are still plentiful
So after having the GE 5751 in for a couple days, my next tube was the Amperex that I posted about in another thread. Essentially the same tube as the coveted 'Bugle Boy'. Made in the same factory.
I paid twice as much for it compared to the GE 5751. I kind of now wish I hadn't! So much of this is about tube synergy, and in my amp, the GE was the winner!
I know that the Amperex is a very highly thought of, and in high demand NOS tube. The fact that the GE 5751 held its own, and even won, is quite a testament to the inexpensive (relatively) little tube!
Andrew
Since the lower gain of the 5751 was not a problem you should try a 12AT7. You just might like that one also!
Is the 12at7 usable at 1.28ma plate current with a 47k plate load resistor and 160vdc on the plate?
The cathode resistor would have to be changed and that would mess up the feedback so the 100 ohm below the cathode resistor would likely have to be recalculated.
The cathode bypass cap might need to be changed as well.
BTW My comments are based on the Leak Stereo 20 amplifier schematic that the design of the Stereo 20pp is inspired by and I'm looking at the input stage.
http://www.iconaudio.com/portfolio-item/stereo-20-pp/
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Check this out!
That page suggested operating point is 10ma. at 250 volts plate, up where the tube is linear.
There's no way to run a 12at7 at that operating point in the original poster's amp without serious modification.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
OK!
Give th JJ's a try if you are feeling adventurous. I've been really happy with them in my CDP. Excellent bargain IMO.
Oh yeah. Continuing to listen to the JJ 5751. You are spot on about this tube. It really suits my listening values quite well! Excellent, sharp attacks, upper midrange/harmonic detail, with a touch of tubey goodness thrown in.
Really an EXCITING listen. But at same time not too harsh or bright. It is on that border, but doesn't really cross it. At least no by much, anyway.
Great recommendation! I am going to start telling people who balk at the expense of NOS tubes, to give the JJ 5751 a try.
Andrew
They really were a delightful surprise to me. I was expecting a decent sounding tube, but got a lot more. And considering their price, they're a ridiculous, ridiculous bargain. I need to buy some more and squirrel them away.Ps. After living with the JJ premium 6922s in the phono of my CAT SL1 for best part of a month now, they're dead quiet and intonations are very, very good. Not quite ready to give a recco yet as past track record with them staying quiet is not so good, but if another few weeks of use and still quiet, I'd give them a huge thumbs up on the bang for buck scale.
Edits: 03/14/15
Hey Son...are these an improvement on the stock EH 6922?
Have yet to give the JJ long plate ax7's a listen...as per your past reco.
Hey, Joe
Yeah, they are a step up from the EHs, IMO. The EH is a good tube for the phono section in the SL1, but tone-wise they leave me wanting. This most recent batch of JJs are really nice. Dead quiet (so far), and tone is the closest thing I've found to a Tele 6922. BTW, I retired my old, SL1 Ref Mk II last summer when I found a great deal locally on a two year old SL1 Renaissance. The new unit is pretty damned sweet.
Mike
Mike, Good to hear. Have been assembling an order for tubes the past week, will add the JJs to the list.
You lucked out finding that SL1 Renaissance, one rarely ever see them come up on the used market.
Saw the SL1 Renaissance (and Legend)a couple years ago at CES, they had them on display with the top off...totally beautiful. The volume control looked like a sculpture. lol...Man I was drooling.
My humble SL1 is still clicking along, but it may be time for a retube, shake things up a tad.
Regards
Josef
After my mis-adventure with the Sylvania 5751, I put in a brand new JJ 5751, per your recommendation.
My thoughts, of course it could still use some burn-in, but, it sounds like a JJ! And that isn't a bad thing. I like the JJ sound. They are very sweet, and non-offensive. If you are going new, I recommend them over pretty much anything else I have heard, including things like the much more expensive Gold Lions.
Andrew
I actually have the JJ 12AX7. I like JJ. Of all the new production tubes, they are consistently right up there with NOS. I am not saying they are as good, no. But if you are going to buy a new production tube, I think the JJ's are the way to go.
But I will order a JJ 5751 and give it a shot. They are so inexpensive, what is it going to hurt?
Andrew
How would I I.D.that particular GE 5751?
Here is the box with all the info, if that helps!
Andrew
or you could give Kevin at Upscale Audio a call... I am sure he has a few more left..
Andrew
another vote for black plates, I used the RCA Command series myself.
E
T
I have an RCA Black Plate on order. As well as two black plate RCA 12AU7's. What is the particular 'magic' in the black plate over greys? Is it in the tube itself, or does the black plate design represent a particular time period that is more desirable? Or something else?
BTW, I have this Sylvania version now. Fed Ex just dropped it off. About to roll it in and see how it compares...
Andrew
Well damn!!! That Sylvania was humming so bad when I put it in, I thought my amp was broken! Could hear if 20 feet away!!! Hmmmm... it was bought from one of the most reputable dealers, and was thoroughly tested.
Packed EXTREMELY well in shipping. Could it still have picked up some damage? Or maybe not all 5751's will be suitable drop ins for my amp?
Andrew
That is the grey plate GE 5751. Try and find the GE black plate version from the 1950s they are much better IMO, although the one you got is still a fine tube.
Enjoy the roll!
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