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Hello there, I know that there is a lot of you guys in this forum that are very knowledgeable about tubes and witch ones sound best with any particular piece of gear. I need some help to pickup some tubes for my new Phono preamp, I need two 12AX7 & two 12AU7 OR 12AT7 There is a maze of tubes out there that I do not know about and will like to get opinions of witch one will sound best. I spoke with Brent from Audiotubes.com and he recommended the Telefunkens @ around $450 for all fourI will like to know what else is out there that will be worth while to try
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Edits: 12/06/14Follow Ups:
The Telefunken 12AX7 are definitely really really nice in the Ares, but they're certainly NOT worth paying a premium to a dealer. There's scads of "used but tests extremely strong, low noise" examples of this tube floating around -- there were a LOT of them produced over the years. I've paid between $70-$110 for used/strong pairs.I didn't try many 12AU7 because I have lots of 12BH7 which are better in most applications -- and you CAN use the 12BH7 in the Ares (I asked Rogue). The main problem there will be finding an acceptable quiet pair, since the big plates tend to be microphonic in phono stage applications (even in just the output buffer, as here).
Best combo I had in the Ares was the Tele 12AX7 plus Hitachi/Japanese 12BH7 (round plates). However, the Teles are not the proper choice when you need something to warm your system up and/or tame brightness (the Japanese 12BH7 are also very neutral; RCA are warm) -- but if not then I think they're amazing in the Ares. RCA black plate 12AX7 were also good (not as good as the Teles, though), and warmer.
For a more traditional 12AU7, I kinda like the GE 5814 3-mica gray plates (I've also used these in the Ares). Good sounding tube, drop-in sub for 12AU7, and not expensive. I've also used Upscale CV4003 in a Rogue Atlas (not Ares though) and wasn't really impressed vs. the cheap as hell RCA clear-tops.
I never tried the Brimar 12AX7; be aware that like Mullard there are box-plate-ish CV4004 military versions which are a different tube -- and with Brimar the CV4004-type tubes are the more common, though I believe Rogue's strong preference is to the domestic 12AX7. With Mullards, I definitely much prefer the long-plate 12AX7 (rare) to the box-plate CV4004 (common as hell).
Edits: 12/16/14 12/16/14 12/16/14
Thank You mulveline for your post, somehow I hooked up with a tube collector from NJ and talk to him on the phone close to an hour. He is sending me 12AX7 & 12AU7 from Telefunken (smooth and grid plates), Amperex and Mullard all match pairs; for me to try and see witch combo I like best.
Boy it is going to be a tube fest coming here soon. I think this is going to take all day. all in all 16 tubes to try plus the JJ on the Ares.
Niiiiice!! Those are all fantastic tubes; great score. In the 12AX7's: long-plate Mullards are awesome, though I never tried them in the Ares somehow. The Ares was just so amazingly clean and detailed with ribbed-plate Teles, but watch it here if your system's bright. Short-plate Mullards will be waaarm (combat a bright system). I always seemed to have a noise problem in one tube of those stock JJ's (both times I had an Ares!), so never gave them a terribly serious listen.
Edits: 12/17/14
The JJ's is all I have been listening too and I have to say they are not that bad @ all. But I bet the NOS tubes are way better, soon to find out. I also purchase some AMR fuses to try them out, According to 10audio.com they are very good indeed and @ 20 bucks a piece not bad @ all compare to 115 for the Audio Horizons or 60 for the other brands. I just need to listen to them for my self so I can see if there is a big difference. Has any body here try different kind of fuses?
Oh and if anybody is interested in dampening a chassis or two I used Hush Mat witch I buy @ my local car stereo shop here in Austin. it made a big improvement in the sound quality of the Stealth phono. I just bought some more to put it on the Ares this Sunday wen I finish with my work week.
Well just a quick update, I installed the Telefunken 12AX7 & 12AU7 smoth plates, the tubes been new needed some break in and still do I think about 25 hrs should do, so far the sound is very good, a lot smother more detail better midrange, bass is deep control and abundant. Not to say that the JJ's did not sound good but this Teles are in another league. I still have the rib plate 12AU7 to try and them move on to the Amperex and Mullards. it is going to be a long process.
It's been a while since I posted any updates, I've been listening to the Teles and let me tell you they sound amazing, micro & macro detail galore, sound stage is supreme. I then change to the Mullards and they sounded very nice indeed but I like the Teles better. Next will be the Amperex and I will be finished with tubes for the Ares.I have to tell you guys something else,this tubes thing is addicting for sure,
I was wondering how a full tube front end will sound and I just happen to come across a three month old Rouge Audio 99 Super Magnum and I bought it.
Now I have a match quad set of RCA Red Base 5692 coming my way for the pre amp.
Edits: 01/17/15
Well I installed the RCA red base tubes and they are phenomenal it's really hard to describe everything in detail, because there is soo much going on. I never heard vinyl sound this good before. Thank You to all you guys that help me out with the selection of tubes, I'm done and now I'm gonna enjoy it for a some time.
12AX7 from TC Tubes: Mike Samra rec'd Genelex Gold Lion gold pins - matched pairs $86, pre-war Yugo (Tele. clones) - matched pairs $69I've bought both and like 'em in my CJ preamp & Jolida 100 cdp. I also like Mullard CV4004 box plates and Mazda chrome tops from Upscale Audio, but they are pretty expensive now. Very nice tubes though. I bought mine years ago when they were cheaper.
12AU7 from TC Tubes: RCA clear tops - matched pairs $84
I also have & like NOS Mullard CV4003 box plate from Upscale Audio (matched pair Platinum grade $150)
12AT7: NOS Mullard CV4024 matched pair Platinum grade $90 from Upscale
Both vendors are excellent IME.
Edits: 12/07/14
Rick,
Another very good 12AX7 is the JJ ECC803S long plate and they are not expensive.
nt
Some questions arise. Are the stock tubes not to your liking? Good old Brent chose some pricey tubes for a $2000 phono preamp. It would seem there might be cheaper choices. How about Gold Lion, for instance.
I also wondered what sound you wanted from your pre. If you could describe which sound qualities you are seeking it would help guide the responses. I would suggest different tubes if you wanted a full warm and lush sound other than Telefunkens which are an excellent choice for other objectives like a very clean, pure, strong, signal for the full spectrum, and so forth. Others may hear it differently but you would be surprised with the consensus about certain brands.
Steve
Thank you all for all your responses, I listen to my system Monday and Tuesday for about 3 to 4 hrs each day and I'm still trying to get a base line. Every album that I played was like listening to it for the first time, I did not imagine the difference between the Stealth and the Ares was going to be that much!!!I need to keep on listening till I know this phono well and then start with the tweaks and mods; dampened the chassis, change the fuses for the AMR German fuses ( I got 3 for free) them roll the tubes.
I'm planing to do one @ a time to see the impact on the sound. As for what kind of sound I'm looking for, Hmm!!! Open, three dimensional, good highs, midrange and base. Be honest with y'all it is sounding really awesome right now as is.
Maybe if y'all know the kind of music I listen to that will also help with the tube selection; Rock n Roll, little country\blues, Pop music, little bit of Jazz. Dire Strait, Depechmode, Pink Floyd, Queen, Arctic monkeys, Of Monsters and Men, Lorde, Amy Winehouse, Bruce Springsteen, Metallica, Keb Mo, Ben Harper, Norah Jones, Aerosmith stuff like that. No classical and very little blues.Well I woke up today and fire up the system while drinking some coffee and listen for 1 or two hrs after the system was warm up. This JJ tubes sound good I wonder how much better the other tubes will sound???
Edits: 12/10/14 12/10/14 12/11/14
Well so far I order about two hundred dollars worth of vinyl for Christmas
Alice in Chain MTV unplug, Dave Matthews, Metallica box set, Norah Jones, Jack White, Munford & Sons and a few more. Need more vinyl for the Ares man these thing is sounding good really good.
Save your money! The clean and quiet, current production, Sovtek 12AX7LPS is wonderful in phono preamps. Talk to AA sponsor Jim McShane and get what you need, without going "bankrupt".
Eli D.
Agree talk to Jim McShane is the answer to your needs.
I will contact Jim and see what he has. I though the same thing those Tele are kind of price $450 for four tubes. I will buy them if I know they are the Holey Grail for the Ares, but I don't that's why I'm posting here and see what other tube heads have to say. By the way I just got into tubes, I've been into solid state for over 20 plus years. My only tube pre amp was a Counterpoint SA3 back in the 80's. I think the stock tubes are OK for know but you know how we Audiophiles are, sooner or latter I will get the upgrade bug and I do not want to jump on the first boat that hits port and sink.
THX!!!
Edits: 12/06/14 12/06/14 12/06/14
Teles are good tubes BUT they may not be the *best* in your gear. The Sovtek LPS is a good place to start. Have you talked to Rogue?
Well after listening to all the tubes I settle on the Telefunkens, they were the best overall sounding with the Ares and they have fully broken in and they sound amazing, the detail, holographic sound stage, bass everything has improve by a large margin. I also bought a Rouge Audio 99 Super Magnum and installed a match quad set of RCA Red Base 5692
The combination of the Teles and RCA sound fantastic. I'm done for know with tubes but I'm still interested on finding out about other 6SN7 out there.
Call and talk to Mark, he'll let you know what he feels are best in the Ares. Last time I talked with him about 9 pin tube preferences his was Brimar 12ax7 and Tele gray plate 12au7. RCA clear tops are an affordable option and I like the RCA blackplate with D foil getter for 12au7's. For the 12ax7 the ge triple mica 5751 is nice but has a little less gain which I found noticeable. I've like the new issue golden lions that I've used, not fond of Sovteks. I'd use what came with the phonostage for a bit first.
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