|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
207.244.66.3
I'm thinking to replace both my Preamp and Amp from Krell to Conrad Johnson. Before I do I would like someone tell me how CJ will sound ? For example is it: dark or open, laid back or fast, liquid or dry, colored or neutral … .And what things I will miss and things will improve.
Worth to mention my speakers are Magnepan MG-20, in case might not work with tube amp.
I will appreciate any comments. Thank you.
Edits: 09/24/14Follow Ups:
I agree with the comments about Maggies not needing as much power as it is often mentioned that they do. I've used Maggies, along with mostly C-J gear, since the late 1970s. Not sure what that counts for, but there, I mentioned it. MG-IIBs, 1.6QRs, and MMGs. Nothing as big as the 20s. I've used them with as little as 35 wpc from a Dynaco ST-70, and up to several hundred wpc from some transistor amps.
I suggest that you can't have too much power, just more than you might need, but you can have too little power (and this situation is no fun). The ST-70 would often hit its head with the IIBs.
For C-J gear, I've been using a PV-12A for a long while, and like Dusty, MV-75/s, a Premier 11A, and Premier 12s. At one time I was using 2 MV-75s, for about 150 wpc, and I even used 4 Premier 12s for 140 wpc into each of the bi-wire/amp jacks on the Maggies. That last configuration was just a massive expense for no benefit. I discerned no difference between 2 and 4 Premier 12s, and have felt that for Maggies up to the size of the IIB or 1.6QR, 75 wpc as a minimum was plenty to keep them, and me, happy.
As a quick aside, I had an Odyssey Audio Stratos "Plus" and an Odyssey Audio Stratos "Extreme". Loved them. Thought they sounded great.
What to expect with C-J sonic character? There's a BIG range there. The different vintages of products can sound very different, and even different tubes in any one of these products can yield very different results. It can vary from dark, syrupy, and bloated, to cold and clinical. Then, there's just right... ;)
C-J gear can have a reputation for being "euphonic". Well, maybe. Certainly since the '90s, I'd say this just isn't accurate. The gear has tended to be more "neutral", and can be made more and less like this with some judicious, careful tube rolling.
Even my old MV-75 that I bought as a kid updated by Bill Thalmann I'd characterize as very neutral. The stock MV-75 certainly was/is not.
The big bit of advice, if I may, is to listen to the gear with your own ears in your own system. Oh, and have fun!
C-J PV5, a pair of MV-75 amps for the mids/highs and a Sonographe SA400 on the bass panels. Not into bi-amping? Then use a C-J pre with one of their MF series power amps.
Thank you all very much for your replies, i really appreciate your inputs. I'm concern what type of sound i will get from CJ (tube), for example more inner details and more high frequency? Does tube generally process the signal differently than SS ?
I'm looking for the sound as the music instrument sounded like real. Krell doing very good in: soundstage, sharpness and dynamic, but not what I want. Also I'm worry the tube might have blur, muddy, slow, and heaviness.
Well, you might get this feeling if the tubes get worn out. Not a problem with solid state.
For about $1500 (used PV5 and a Sonographe SA400) you could determine for yourself if it is a good move. Not happy? Then sell them for a minor loss (or gain) and try something else.
Maggies need lots of power. Tubes are not the best option unless one gets a very powerful tube amp, with all the associated issues.
For Maggies, I would recommend Electrocompaniet preamp and power amps. They sound unique among solid state amps, and provide a degree of openness, clarity, and low level detail not achieved by any other SS I've heard or owned. They will be a very good match for Maggies, in that they will bring out the best that the Maggies have to offer, while taming what can be an over aggressive treble from the Maggies.
"What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier!" (Paul Klipsch)
Many people are mistaken in their perception of Magnepan speakers when it comes to the power issue.They can handle a lot of power but they don't need a lot of power being they are a purely resistive and stable load that tube amps love.
Andy mentioned about the leak sounding better than the CJ on the Maggies and he is absolutely correct because the first 2 to 5 watts is the most critical for Magnepans as that gives you almost all your listening volume most of the time.
Trying a tube preamp is another excellent suggestion along with biamping.
I used to have Magnepan Tympani 4As and I used to drive those with Mcintosh mc60s.The CJ Premier one we had on them didn't sound good until you got the volume past one o:clock position but this was CJ's first huge amp literally,being serial# 0001.
I now run Martin Logans CLXs biamped with a pair of Citation 2s done with Jim McShane's mods and solid state on the subs.
I have a pair of NewForm Research ribbons which also handle 500 watts.Like the Magnepans they are a resistive load and I run them with a single Citation 2 or an Mc275 Mac or a pair of Mc60s..They all drive them effortlessly..
I would look for a vintage tube amp or mono block amps around 60 to 75 watts such as Macs or Citation 2s and do the McShane upgrades and your speakers will love it..Even an Mc240 Mac will drive them nicely,especially if you biamp.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
Edits: 09/26/14
I am driving a pair of Magnepan 1.7's with a McIntosh Mc240 that Mike Samra rebuilt.I don't feel that I need more power 99% of the time.Unlike some of the new,and more expensive new tube amps,the rebuilt Mcintosh doesn't sound like a solid state amp.You should ask Mike about rebuilding a McIntosh or Citation tube amp for you.I think that the resale value of a good restored tube amp will hold or increase in value,so you really can't go wrong with good vintage.
Dave
Agreed, if that's what he wants.
I'm not to sure what sound he's looking for. Krells are a pretty hard act to follow.
charles
~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
I highly recommend bi-amping. When I was running MG3's, I used a CJ preamp with SS bass amp, and used a 20W tube amp for the mids and highs. It was in a fairly large room, and I like full scale orchestral music at realistic levels. Worked fine. Your Krell should do very well for bass duty. My CJ preamp back then was a PV5. Warm and lush. Sounded very good. I built my own amps.
It might elicit more useful contributions if we knew what it was in your current setup that you are trying to fix. What problems with your present system dissatisfy you?
George
Sorry for the title typo. That's what's your list for your stereoEver considered just trying a tubed preamp first. I've found for experience that the preamp does contribute the most in voicing a stereo.
Dumping the Krell's can be very cost prohibitive if you don't care for your new stereo. Kinda hard to back tract financially.
Also one caveat: I've found a number of new tube pieces to sound very similar to solid state. So factor that into your search. If part of your goal is to gain more "tube" sound - research some more. CJ makes some fine stuff. But read, read, read.
charles
Edits: 09/25/14 09/25/14
+1 on a tube pre-amp being a good place to start.
I bought a big CJ Premier 4 amp to drive my Maggie SMGs in a medium size room.
My souped up Leak Stereo 20 amp sounded better. Yes, really. Sold the Prem 4 and just as well, since it cost a fortune to re-tube.
My findings are that you don't need a huge amp, you need a good amp. Unless you listen loud in a big room, forget about loads of watts and big solid state amps. A push-pull 300b amp would be fine, and a much better way to go. Maggies sing with the right tube amps with triode stages and no feedback. Pentodes with feedback won't give you the same magic.
Years ago there were people who swore by using their Maggies w/
OTL amps
Dump the Krell pre and replace with CJ. Keep the Krell amp to provide power to your Maggies. The CJ/Krell combo may be just the ticket.
Not a great fit for most tubes amps unless money is no object. I can't imagine the 20's playing large scale music full tilt with a tube amp that wouldn't put a sizable dent in your wallet. The 275 watt CJ Art monos are in the 35-40K range for instance. Then there are the VTL's and AR's at equally ridiculous prices. Big, rugged high power tube amps routinely cost as much as a decent sedan. The Quicksilver V4's already mentioned might work in the 5-6K range. A lot depends on how loud you listen and what type of music as well.
Can't go wrong with Conrad Johnson, but make sure whatever you get has plenty of power for your Magnepans. Magnepans are inefficient.
CJ have a fabulous midrange. If you prefer acoustical instrumentation and voices you can hardly go wrong with CJ. I personally and this is, of course, a personal opinion prefer the CJ sound because of that. It simply honors the vocal range. Never used it with the MG 20's but have used it on the MG 3,2,and 1's
Don't know how big your listening room is but the bigger MG's prefer a bit more power. I might prefer a Quicksilver amp instead: Silver 88's with the new KT 150's (lots of lower end punch), or the V-4's.
OF course FWIW and YMMV
Before you drop a bundle on CJ check out this video.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: