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In Reply to: RE: 12AX7 Suggestions ? posted by wiggy924 on August 12, 2014 at 15:32:51
Another one to consider would be the current JJ ECC803s. The gold-pin version. Very smooth, good imaging and tone.
Follow Ups:
Guys,
Thanks for your responses and how does the CV4004 Mullards fit into this category? The stock pair of Chinese 12AX7s are nice but I'm wanting to improve upon their performance and the Psvane TII 12ax7s were not better than stock, all missing fullness...
Thanks,
breakin time before they start to sound their best. How many playing hours did you have on them? The reason I ask is I wanted to buy some for my gear.
Cougar,
I have 200 hours on them and if interested let me know.
Wig
I have seen threads on other forums that the PSvanes TII go through few morf sound phases before the sound really nice. I have heard at 3-4 different sound phases until the 300 hour mark when they really start to come into their own and sound great.
Maybe you can let them go another 100 hours before you give up on them?
I have no experience with these tube only passing along the info I have read on other forums and the feedback on them at first were like yours until they hit 300 or more hours on them. Reminds me like the Blackgate capacitors. They didn't start sounding good until around the 300 hour mark. These I had first hand experience with and heard for myself. :)
If you do decide to go another 100 hours on them and still don't like them...let me know. I may be interested in them!
Cougar,
From what I've read the small signal tube requires 75-100 hours of burn-in and the output tubes, the Shuguang Treasure KT88Z took about 340 hours to reach their prime and they are my favorite KT88 with a beautiful midrange and great image separation.
Dekay,
Would I have to replace all the 12AU7s in V03/V05/V06 & V07 or just the one in V03?
Wig
I assume that (2) are used for gain in the line stage section, and that would be the pair to focus on (if you are attempting to improve the sound of your CD source).
The pair of 12ax7's in your query are for the MM phono section and I doubt that they are contributing to the 2D/lean sound that you are trying to remedy.
Not a fan of Telefunken 12au7's in my meager line stage preamp for this very reason, but loved one in a vintage Pilot 232 power amplifier (not certain what function it performed, but it was my first pick from gobs of various 12au7's).
No hands on experience with new production 12au7/12ax7 tubes, and can only recommend what I did previously as far as 12au7's go.
Guys,
Here are what the positions are and the tubes stock and (aftermarket):
V03 12AU7 line stage gain stock Jan/Phillips ( Telefunken smooth plate)
V04 12AX7 line stage output stock Shuguang (Tung Sol square getter)
V05 12AU7 power amp input stock Jan/Phillips ( Telefunken smooth plates)
Let me know what you think on these locations and the route you would take for a sound that's full and open.
Thanks,
Ron
Maybe it's just me (half way through a Z-Pak, which tends to boggle my thinking).
The 12ax7's make sense with V01/V02 being used for phono (low noise tubes required) and V04 being the line stage output (whatever that means:-).
Perhaps they use a single tube for both channels (one side/triode per channel), but I would want to confirm this as you want the stereo channels to match one another.
Also which tubes are used as drivers (to drive the KT88's)?
Anyway, once you get it figured out try the original Shuguang 12au7's in various positions (mixed with the Telefunkens et cetera) as you seem to want the Shuguang type of sound (but a better version of it).
Once you figure out the positions for the Shuguang's then try a more romantic 3D 12au7 in their place.
I mainly use later production short plate/O ring Mullard and Amperex 12au7's, which are still fairly inexpensive (maybe $80/pair from a reputable tube dealer).
Hopefully this makes more sense since I'm new to the tube arena:V01 12AX7 phono input/gain Stock tube Shuguang
V02 12AX7 phono output/gain Shuguang
V03 12AU7 line stage gain Jan/Phillips
V04 12AX7 line stage output Shuguang
V05 12AU7 power amp input Jan/Phillips
V06 12AU7 driver left Jan/Phillips
V07 12AU7 driver right Jan/Phillips
Have you tried any Cifte 12AU7 and am curious how they compare to Tele SP; they're described as 3D and musical at Upscale...
Thanks,
Wig
Edits: 08/17/14
the lines I suspect that you are looking for more midrange warmth/bloom, which I doubt the Cifte will offer.
As I'm not familiar with new production tubes I will again suggest a later production Mullard (Blackburn production) 12au7 for starters (the later Amperex Holland production is not quite as warm sounding , but it might be a good candidate as well).
According to the info you have supplied it would go in V03.
Brent Jesse (see link) has the Mullard Blackburn 12au7 listed @ $41 (they have Orange Amperex World logos and they are the same as the ones I use in my line stage).
You should note when ordering that the single tube will supply both channels, which indicates that the dual sections/triodes should to be matched to one another (this is common and not a big deal).
If you want to try new production then Jim McShane (sp) is a popular choice here @ AA and perhaps he has old production tubes as well.
Anyway, this is where I would start if it were my amp and then I would probably move on to fine tuning the driver tubes (V06/V07) afterwards.
Dekay,
Thanks for taking the time in walking me through the selection of tubes in key areas in my amp. I was really lost before not even knowing the key positions and was shooting in the dark but I'm seeing things more clearly now.
It's amazing how a few tubes can transforms the sound of a very good integrated amp...
Thanks again,
Wig
.
Going to put the stock Jan/Phillips back in and listen for a few days to determine which way to go in terms of transparency or fullness.
Anyone know the sound signature of the Jans?
Thanks,
Wig
The Mullard CV4004's are supposed to be among the best. They are expensive and a bit scarce. I have never taken the time to track any down and try them. If you go to the Asylum homepage and click on the FAQs, there's a tubes section there and in that section you will find an entry titled "Joe's Tube Lore". It was written 15 years ago, but to this day is one of the best references I know of. In there, Joe writes of his impressions of a shed-load of different 12AU7,12AX7 and 6922 types. Well worth the read. My personal experiences match Joe's impressions almost exactly and have many times used it as a reference. The sad thing is that many of the tubes Joe writes about are all but extinct these days.
Upscale has 'em for $160 each now IIRC. That's more than double what I paid for them 2-3 years ago. They sound very good in my old CJ pv10's phono section, and would fit what the OP is looking for.
I also bought some of the Genelex gold pin 12AX7 reissues based on Mike Samra's rec. and am currently enjoying them in my Jolida cdp. NOS Mazda chrome plate 12AX7's are also a nice tube in my phono stage, but like the Mullards have doubled in price at Upscale from only a couple years ago.
Man, hope currently produced tubes are good and will be around for a while. NOS prices are getting past my pain threshold.
Shane,
Can you match me up a super quiet/matched (GLs) pair? I'll contact you by e-mail with a few days?
Wig
Well if you read "Joes tube lore" you will see that Joe thinks ALL 12ax7s suck and recommends users try 5751 instead. May be what you are looking for (I love 5751s) but by all means contact "Shane" if you are looking for new production.
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