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I've cryo-treated tubes with good results, and I *think* they are lasting benefits, but... I keep wondering if the cryo is getting slowly undone for every hour the tube is hot. Just wondering if someone can explain that.
Mark
----
Headphone enthusiast.
favorite cables: K Works
Follow Ups:
If cryo does not change anything then nothing will undo that.
( the jury is still out in the cryo case )
Apologies in advance. The jury came back with the verdict fifteen years ago. Hel-loo!;-)
Edits: 05/07/14
I think, for the same reason that freezing a cake doesn't un-bake it. The inherent nature has changed (for the better, we hope).
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Freezing and then thawing an apple sure changes it...not for the better. Aren't Twinkies promoted as some kind of cake. Bet cryo improves them immensely.
I'd be curious to see a re-constituted Cryo Twinkie. Maybe not taste one. Perhaps it would have super-conductor qualities near zero Kelvin.
Cryo Twinkie. The new Bybee.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Cryo'd bats. Is that bats or what? Do you see where I'm headed with this?
...you're grasping at bats in support of cryo for audio. Did you read the WSJ article (other link is dead)? It doesn't make the case for cryo bats. It did mention that grain orientation was the acknowledged primary factor in bat strength apart from physical geometry and basic wood type. This from conventional research. Since the cryo guys make a specific claim of 26% increased strength due to cryo processing, unlike audio apps, this is easily verifiable by independent parties...no DBT needed. I'm aware of no independent verification.
For audio applications will cryoing maple stands, maple boards, improve the sound and if so why? Since cryoing just about anything improves the sound, why not try cryoing maple, or speaker cabinets for that matter, if there are cryo coolers big enough, which I actually doubt. Any type of wood, Mpingo discs, Mpingo record weights, high end tonearms, tonearm wire, stereo cartridges, wire, dielectric material, brass and steel threaded rods, record platters, speaker drivers, various plastics, CD players, CDs, and LPs benefit from cryo why not maple?
Edits: 05/08/14 05/08/14
You make the most ardent right wing christian seem positively Humean.
nt
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May your tubes be lively and long-lasting. Holy be thy heater.
Blush
...The cryo crowd has never been seriously concerned with the "how's and whys", why start now?
"Since cryoing just about anything improves the sound..." I suspect most persons who've subjected their stuff to cryo processing, in reality haven't the faintest idea what was actually done. For all they know, the stuff was placed on a shelf in a warehouse at the "cryo" facility for a few days and then shipped back with nothing done at all. Same for mfgrs claiming OEM cryo. The user can't know what was actually done in nearly all cases. It's a faith based practice where the masses blindly follow the recommendations of the anointed few based on faith and hope. To be clear here, I'm not saying audio cryo is totally ineffective and a fraud, only that there are far too many loose ends to the claims made for it.
OTOH, I do admit the idea of improving a Twinkie thru cryo processing is attractive although I'm not sure it's sound will improve. But surely the flavor and mouth feel will.
You were the guy in the back of the class throwing spitballs at the teacher.
metal crystalline structure changes with heat normally occur at rather high temperatures. For Steels you need to get it red hot and semi plastic.
For tube struxctures, the only part which is supp[osed to get that hot is the filament ( heater) and that is not made of steel but of tungsten, which requires even higher temperatures in order to affect crystalline structure change.
If the grid or plate gets that hot, you have basically destroyed the tube.
I still think it's an annealing process. THe only problem with the cryo is you need to heat up the metal to a pliable state, then quench it to fix the alignment of crystalization.
If the tubes are cryo-ed hot - well you can imagine the results - pop!
but if it works - go with it
charles
I'm going to try and cryo treat my fibula and tibia bones in my left foot..I wonder if it will hurt Charlie? It would be nice if it worked lol.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
and the voiced did stop.
charles
Nt
We won't even mention the tube base, tube pins and the glass.
Thanks for the replies, everyone. For the most part I feel that cryo-treating tubes improves the treble extension and smoothness, although I did run into one tube type (an RFT 12AU7) that seems to get too bright with cryo.
----
Headphone enthusiast.
favorite cables: K Works
Cryo is somewhat equivalent to heat tempering. It's the cycle of temperature change that makes the material more homogeneous, improving its properties. Thus, repeated cold cycling or repeated heat cycling can do no harm.
Edits: 04/30/14
nt
Nt
Audiophiles report that repeated cryo treatments are better than one. In other words as the material becomes more and more homogeneous by tempering, either hot or cold, the strength and hardness and durability improves.
Someone took 10 samples of the same type, brand, and construction of common brand new tube, tested them to make sure they were in spec, cryo treated half, then listened to all of them for say 100 hours. Then sent them to a lab to be disected and have their crystal structure analyzed.
You know, evidence. Science. Facts.
I hate to judge before all the facts are in but I'm guessing you don't even know the difference between evidence and proof. Are you volunteering to do as you suggest?:-)
Edits: 05/08/14
Drawing an inapt analogy (from heat treating to cold treating) isn't evidence, it's hopeful guesswork. You know, the kind of "evidence" some charlatans use to promote quesionable products.
Nt
I think the intent was to aneal/change the metal inside the tube. Not effect the actual tube temparture.
So use it in good health
charles
If a Tube red plates, I guess that the cryo is undone, but that will be the least of your concerns, at that point.
Steve
Cryogenics is an irreversible process. Even the home freezer process for CDs, etc. is irreversible (permanent).
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