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In Reply to: RE: Just recently got a couple pairs back from the lab. posted by geoffkait on April 03, 2014 at 18:19:16
>>> Have not listened to them yet.
>>> I suspect the whole cryo exercise might be a little fruitless.Way to keep an open mind.
Like I said -
Those that claim it is snake oil and
refuse anyone's claims of improvement
as succumbing to brainwashing or hype.DanL
Edits: 04/04/14Follow Ups:
Revers-o change-o and what do we get?
Those that claim it (cryo) makes an improvement and refuse anyone's claims that it is snake oil (are) succumbing to brainwashing or hype.
An open mind makes nothing a fact.
You appear to be saying listen to those with no experience instead of those with experience. That's a novel way to look at things.
...I said absolutely nothing regarding "no experience". More to the point: why should the assertion "cryo treated tubes sound better" be the only possibility? Why is it not possible cryo treatment makes no difference at all or, heaven forbid, it makes tubes sound worse?
All this "open mind stuff" in favor of cryo (and some other dubious audio tweaks) is just a red herring.
Some years ago, perhaps a decade or more, I ran across a significant quantity of Black Plate Triple Mica GE 5751's made in the 50's(as pictured above) packed in large military boxes with tubes packed inside with crinkly brown paper.
I traded a large portion of them with 'Tube World' (exchanged for two NOS/NIB RCA Globe 10's) with the agreement that he would have them CRYOED and send a couple matched pairs back after they were CRYOED and tested for noise.
Long story short, I ended keeping two pair of the original un-CRYOED stock and received back two CRYOED pair such that I could do a direct comparison.
All of the tubes were noise free in my Phono Pre-amp, none were mircrophonic.
This particular 5751 is a great sounding tube and was my favorite as a gain stage in my modified 6550 PP power amp.
OK, perhaps it was not the GREATEST amp in the world but at least very sensitive to tube rolling.
I'd have to say that in this case, the CRYOED tubes won hands down BUT...
I would not argue that CRYOing might also make a BAD sounding tube sound WORSE!
Or make no difference at all.
Also not sure how long the effect lasts, as shortly after this exercise, I built a pair of 300B SET monoblocks and stopped using 'Shitty Little Nine Pin Tubes'in my amps! ;-)
I have never done a comparo. I have bought cryo tubes from Cryoset on ebay because Rick does do thorough testing.
We know from experience that almost anything cryo'd sounds better. Have you ever stopped to consider why nearly every high end cable manufacturer employs cryogenics? Hint: it's because they can't compete otherwise.
... You dismiss those who've tried it and found no difference or found it worse. And it doesn't answer the question. That cable mfgrs offer cyro treated product doesn't answer the question either. Astrologers exist because there's a market for them. Their existence doesn't prove they can foretell the future based on birth dates and the alignment of planets and constellations. Successfully supplying into a market proves there's a market, nothing more.
Maybe we should conduct a poll? I think I know of someone nearby who has recent experience.
You can throw away all the reports of "it didn't do anything" and "it made matters worse." They are anomalies, outliers. Most folks who tried it get good results.
...and pay attention only to the positive reports. Seems kind of closed minded to deny the existence of outcomes known to occur.
One reason why some folks have negative results with cryo is actually quite simple. It's because an item just back from the cryo lab will not sound very good, even kind of harsh and funny sounding, for a period of perhaps a week - this is due to the temporary effect of cryo on the materials, thermal shock. Other reasons might include the system was not resolving enough, the person was physically unable to appreciate the effect, his memory was not good enough to remember what it sounded like before cryo properly without the ability to A/B.
Give up, dude.
People like Steve won't see the truth.
Provide them with evidence and
they claim it isn't valid or made up.
Provide then with scientific explanation and
they say where's the white paper or the journal.
It will never be good enough for them.
I learned long ago with these types 8^(
DanL
PS Steve don't even try baiting me because it won't work.
Please recall my discussion originally centered on the tendency of true believers to dismiss the neutral or negative outcome and labeling those who experience them as "closed minded". I simply pointed out that the true believer might actually be the closed minded person with their absolute denial of the other outcomes regarding something as subtle as a sonic change induced by a physical treatment process adapted from other fields and based mostly on faith. I did not state cryo induced effects were pure fantasy; only that I'm doubtful because there's primarily anecdotal evidence and there are many neutral and some negative reports outcomes.
...and totally unconvincing. Poor system resolution and unskilled listener are tired old excuses that could be applied to just about anything. If the effects of cryo or any other tweak is so profound, it ought not require cutting edge 1 percenter equipment and post doc listening skills to reliably discern them.
Care to give it another shot?
I agree with that, Steve-O
BRING ON THE EMPIRICAL TESTING D: < *flex*
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
May your tubes be lively and long-lasting. Holy be thy heater.
Asking for a friend.
Nt
Uh, what I actually said was,"Unless you use Herbies tube dampers, I suspect the whole cryo exercise might be a little fruitless." You probably missed the part about my using cryo for the past 15 years.
"You can't tell the trolls without a scorecard." - Old audiophile axiom
Edits: 04/04/14
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