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In Reply to: RE: A Favorite 6DJ8 is the Equivalent of a Favorite Demon from Hell posted by Bambi B on March 24, 2014 at 06:08:29
I too have an ARC SP8, mine uses the 12AX7 gain tubes, and is an early model MK1, I think it would be called All I had done to is was replace these tubes once, with Siemens.
You have the SP10, wow! That was the one, I believe Infinity used for their speaker research?
You bring up an interesting point as to why some of these tubes are much lower power on one side of the dual triode. I know some people try to mix-match these.
I too like the Valvo red label E88CC, they used to be a little less money, now, I do not know?
You like the white label Amperex PQ best, I think these are same as the JAN and USN-CEP tubes, maybe not? Some have 6992 while the military ones like JAN usually are 7308.
I think the Holland Philips/ Amperex tubes sound a little more sweet, more like a Mullard, but definitely more the Philips sound, like the SQ tube.
You do not like Mullard tubes? I have mostly these, as I lived in France and bought them at tube shops. Also Masda some are made by Philips and some by Mullard, label RT and RTC, I have mainly the RTC Mullard English tubes. I have had them since the 60s!
Siemens, these all altogether, I have the most, about 20 maybe and the RTC Mullard, I have around one dozen. As to Philips/ Amperex, mine are made in Holland and have white little stars on a Earth picture, not a badge and stars; of these I have only a few, and maybe 4 Philips SQ?
Some say I should sell them, but I do not want to bother. I like ARC and like to know my tubes are good; at my age, I will never need any tubes. I have no more tube power amplifiers and I do not want to buy any Russian or Chinese tubes.
You seem to know a lot about all these tubes, and my favourite preamplifier, ARC. I like the LS 15 and the early LS 16 with these tubes. Not the later ‘super tube’. I think my favourite was the LS5, I no longer have and the LS22, which I have. I never thought the LS 25 was worth the extra money.
You say the best sound cones from a more delicate tube? The Mullard RTC is most delicate, and I would say about my favourite. The E88CC, most are the Siemens A type and they seem rugged, but they are, as you say, ‘punchy’. The Philips are like that, but more lush, and I think Mullard are most warm?
What about you? Would you use a punchy Siemens with a warm Mullard, or lush Philips/ Amperex, or stick to the same as driver tubes? I like Siemens with Mullard or Philips, and my LS22 has the older Amperex, with Siemens, E188CC. My LS15 preamps have the Siemens and RTC Mullards.
I like the LS15 with a stereo and HT combination, used with solid state power amps. The last tube I had was a BAT and it was better than the ARC VT 100 models; I know the early D models, some were phenomenal!
Really, if I had no tubes for replacement, I would have solid state, like Forte 44, that one sounds very dynamic and very open and clear! I sold mine having so many ARC and one thing I like is the balanced use, more than one set like LS22, two on LS15 in and out, and I think LS5 only had the balanced XLR, I bet you know for sure? Never had the Reference gear, too much cost. Same with BAT, they are, as their name suggests, all about balanced, while I am not sure the MC 75 reissue is a fully balanced amplifier, like ARC makes; I do not know much about McIntosh today. Same with Conrad Johnson, great sound but not balanced, as far as I know? ARC, they stick to stereo only, no DSD and no multi-channel DACs, so I have Esoteric, which are great players!
I’m not the single-ended type, with 300B or 2A3, my father was.
Having read you before, you like the D 130, correct? I have some Classe, the CA series, these I like, they sound good and hold up well.
Long time ago, I had McIntosh, where they had MAC labs in California? I had lots of tubes for those, then, not anymore.
I cannot believe how expensive these tubes are now! I do not remember what I paid, but was less than 10$ a tube, I believe? They were never real cheap, but in the mid 60s, 10$ was a lot of money!
You have more tubes than anyone I know! Me, I was around then, when the MC240, Marantz 8B and model 9 were new. I am not so well versed beyond being there.
Nice of you to respond! Cheers back to you!
Follow Ups:
kathrynatrand@hotmail.com,
Yes, the SP8 is one of my favorite preamps. The SP10 I respect emormously, but the SP8 is somehow more "likeable"- it's a bit more forgiving. I listen for performance and repetoire instead of sound quality and end up with old Vanguard re-released Gieseking or Lipatti- and the SP10 is unrelenting. My SP8 is one of the "red board" models- and still has it's original 1985 tubes. I've had Siemens triple mica E83CC's waiting for years, but the originals are still quiet and strong.
The SP10 is just fantastic and beautifully adapted to LP's- swirchable cartridge loading and two phono inputs so I can change form th Oracle III/SME V to the delights of a Dual 1219 with a Grado 78 catridge in seconds. Something I rediscovered with certain music- solo instrumental mostly is how astounding good mono is as compared to medium stereo.
With Philips- Amperex, Valvo, Mullard 6DJ8 tubes, one has to be careful about the era as there are some nasty later 6922's and JAN 7308's.
Mullard is a brand for which I would expect to have an affinity, and I have a number of Mullards that I think are excellent- GZ34 and M8129 (Premium 12AT7), but overall over time Ive gravitated to Siemens for a lot of things as they tend to be energetic > E81CC, 5814, E83CC. With E88CC, E188CC I like Siemens as well, and they are rugged and quiet, but here I tend towards the Philips balance of attributes- refined, natural timbre, discretion between sounds, imaging. Telefunken is another brand that, like Mullard has it uses, but that was never an obsession.
As you mention, it's possible to mix types and I tend to use more aggressive Siemens to wake up vintage McIntosh and in the SP10, the refined Valvos in the Phono and the punchy bass of the Siemens for the line stage, though I rarely play CD's with the SP10.
For office use, I don't like to run tubes , so I have an LS3 / D130 with a Revox B160 or Mcintosh MR77 tuner and a Cambridge Audio 640C CD and Infinity 360 speakers. The Speakers are the weak link as the LS3 /D130 is a very good combination. I used a McIntosh MR67 tube tuner for awhile with old Vandersteen 2C's and that was an amazing combination. the D130 is wonderfully neutral- whatever is input is output only more of it and very dynamic. it's cold-blooded though and takes hours to warm up- 3 or 4.
Yes, NOS tubes have become more difficult for two reasons> the differences between the really good ones and later, not so wonderful are more obscured, and as you say, the prices are amazing. I estimated that the tubes in the SP10 at the moment would cost more than four times their cost when purchased in the early 2000's - I could never justify the cost today.
Since stating about 2000 or so, I have ended up with about 650 NOS tubes. Years ago I decided I would have four of any tube that was no longer made (a lot of tuner tubes) and as I use 31 types of which more than half haven't been made since the late 80's, that accounts for a lot. Then, I decided I wanted a lifetime supply with options for the SP10, SP8, and McIntosh MR67, then I became interested in tube microphone preamps and- well you get the idea,..
I'm, thinking in the future of using NOS tubes in some odd projects, such as building a chassis with dual clones of EICO mono HF14 integrated but without tone controls. Oh no! I'm going to have start buying EL84's!
Cheers,
Bambi B
As for Mullard/RTC E188CC tubes, it would be useful if you can specify which era.
Sonically, Mullard E188CC tubes from 1960s with Halo Getter(rev dY0)with designations such as E188CC CV4108 CV4110 and CV4109 are more closer to Philips Heerlen E188CC versus dimple disk Mullard E188CC/CV4108 from 1970s-1980s.
1960S Mullard E188CC tubes are more refined in midrange and balanced overall.
That would be my last tube power simplifier. Just not into the bigger tubes anymore/
I purchased them from a TV repair store, which had most all tubes for anything, and the time was 1965-1967, I guess one can be sure, unless there were same time travel tubes, must were made when, or before I purchased them. They were purchased in France.
As far as I know, the RTC tubes I purchased 1964-1967, were all before 1968, I sure Most were used, like Mazda, in broadcasting, and some for industrial products and a few radio enthusiasts.
Most for audio were the 12AX7, 12AT7, 12AU7, 12AU7S were used by musicians, 12AX7 was used in some audio, but really,more the one with higher mu. I do not remember any of the 6922 being used in preamp that much and why I have them is somewhat coincidence?
I first began using them when some older amps needed new tubes, and later, with ARC, I changed out all those Russian tubes they use with Siemans, Mullard and some Philips/ Amperex none purchased after 1970.
I've dismissed the Mullard tubes after spending some times with their ECC88 and some EL84 tubes and finding all of them sounding thick in the midrange but not much extension on the upper range, and cotrol at the bottom octaves.
I have some CV2493s, Halo E88CCs and ECC88s that I had purchased years ago but never listened to. I think I will give these a try.
FrankC
Most is tubes I owned were E88CC, or E188CC
THe Siemens E88CC A frame are good, but I do not know what people mean about A1 vs A6 numbers, mine are A1, whet whether that is good or not ?The Mulland I have are actually RTC made my Mullard and are E188CC, these sound war,er to me, but not as dynamic as the Siemens.
I understand the E identification much better then the all numbers, which I think is USA?
I think Philips SQ are the same as Amperex PQ when made in Holland? Generally the older one are better, but the orange label are very fine.
Edits: 03/27/14
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