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Which current production 12AX7 (if any) rival NOS in your experience? Or, another way to ask this, which are the best current 12AX7 sonically? I'm referring to the "sane priced" ones up to Golden Lion. I'm not interested in the high-dollar super duper Chinese tubes -- at those prices I'll just buy NOS
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Take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
Mendel is correct there are no current production tubes that rival carefully chosen NOS or used old stock tubes. The 12ax7 has got to be the one of the most common tube types with millions made and many well documented reviews of what to expect with the insertion of these types into your circuit.
12ax7s are cheap and can last 1000's of hours. You can experiment with used ones and get to know their characteristics.
Tubes sellers are in business to sell product so are manufacturers. They need reliable , inexpensive product to sell from distributors that can supply them in quantity and on time. These re-sellers have to recommend current production. There are no quantities of NOS and if there were they may be rejects from 50 years ago....who knows.
So, if you have the stomach to experiment with NOS or used OS then you will learn something. If you'd rather not take the time or the risk then the recommendations above make alot of sense.
Sorry, I can't agree that new production sound as good as old production - no way. What I can agree to is that new production has become more reliable , available and consistent. That is a good thing.
And if I hear that recommendation for the Sovtek LPS one more time I think I'll puke! I have a very well regarded expensive 5 figure preamp as well as good examples of the most classic tube designs of the 50's and 60's-80's that use the 12ax7 ( marantz 7, ARC SP series, Citation) and that tube is adequate and can be quiet that's about it. I can immediately tell the difference with NOS superior in presentation ( varies by manufacturer virtue) every time.
With the exception of Ei KT90 ( which is unfortunately long out of production) my assertions of new stock vs. old stock apply even more so for power tubes. The odds of finding good OS power tubes is less likely though ( certainly not impossible) so new stock is mostly the only option for typical tube types.
Remember my first sentence and have some fun!
is that you can still get early ( mid to late 50's) type AX7 tubes, used but tested good. Prices are high but they are still available........Some are only a few years younger than I am.....
AJ you nailed it!
The tubes are the parts in tube amplifiers and pre-amplifiers that actually amplify the signal! Not saying transformer, caps, etc are not important, but its the tubes guys.
If you had the balls to go tubes in the first place, suck it up and get some great tubes for your babies. Its not that hard. We are fortunate to still be able to buy some of the greatest tubes ever made by man for our amps. They will never be reproduced despite the gross remarketing of the best names of the past.
With a grain of salt I agree. However, pursuing NOS or good used tubes has become a challenge. If you don't know what you are doing, or know your seller, it can be frustrating and expensive.
" And if I hear that recommendation for the Sovtek LPS one more time I think I'll puke!"
Start heaving... in the right location the LPS does a fantastic job. For instance, paired with a couple CV4024 Mullards they are superb in the Citation I phono section.
I do agree, the Ei KT-90 was phenomenal - but so is the Genalex KT-77 reissue.
As is the KT66 Reissue
As is the KT88 Reissue
As is the Genelex and TS 12AX7
As is the TS 6L6g
As is the N709 Genelex
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
Better bring me a bucket!
thanks.....
Hee! I COULDN'T resist! Thanks for being a good sport!!
Hi Jim,
Just want to compliment you for your service on and off these boards. I am a satisfied customer and appreciate the service and knowledge you provide to the group!
It's a pleasure AJ, thank you so much for your kind words of support!!
Hey Jim,I've been listening to the new reissue Gold lion kt88 You sent me over a month ago and they are very nice:)In a different league than the EH kt88 for sure.Very dynamic with lots of top end and nice midrange.I was biasing them at 38ma for a while but the sound is fuller at 45 ma.
Would the tubes last much longer biased at 38ma or does it just matter how hard you drive them?
Cheers Rob
Rob,
It does matter - but you are operating them so conservatively that I think the difference is moot. The difference in the work the tube is doing is quite small.
Enjoy them!
If you want NOS sound why don't you just buy NOS?
Can anyone here honestly say the Sovtec LPS can even compare to an RCA or Raytheon blackplate tube from 1960? I'm not saying the LPS is bad, I have them and even use them in my amp every now and then. But when they come out and something like the RCA goes in the difference is not subtle. NOS has warmth and bloom (musicality?) in the midband that current tubes like the LPS or EH just don't have. I have not tried the super-duper Chinese tubes, why bother as they cost as much as good NOS?
NOS 12ax7 tubes are still readily available and reasonably priced. They last for thousands of hours in most properly designed circuits. Used old stock 12ax7 are even more abundant and cheaper yet.
Take advantage while prices are still reasonable and supplies still good. Down the road things will get more scarce and costly, and new production may become the only game in town.
You should think of the Sovtek LPS as a specialist tube reserved for low noise requirement usage. E.g. in my Aesthetix Rhea phono stage they are used in the initial gain positions; it supports LOMC with tubes - no stepup transformer. There are also reissue Mullard in the circuit [and GL 6922 for that matter] selected for sound character.
Anyway if you are going to single out the LPS for comparison with NOS then your observation make sense, otherwise ...
Never trust an Atom, they Make Up everything!
Mendel,
This is 2014 and there are some new production 12AX7's that are very good but sonics are circuit and system dependent.
I have and like Tung-Sol, Gold Lion, Groove Tube 12AX7-M (these are being produced again) and Psvane. The premium Chinese small signal tubes are very good. Also, there seems to be ongoing improvement in these tubes over the years. I have NOS too but am happy to know that the world of tubes has not stopped moving forward.
My 2 cents.
Eli hit it on the nose..I own a collection of NOS tubes that is pretty sizable and I can tell you honestly that the New Sensor tubes are on their game..The 12AX7 LPS is a killer tube as is the new TungSol and Mullard and Genelex..Keep in mind as these new tubes age,they will get better and better and I'm seeing it right now..The new TS I haven't been able to pull out of my phono stage as they not only sound very good,but they are extremely quiet as well and this is in the phono section. Now some will argue and say Mikey you are crazy and that may be the case but I would say to them,bring your arse over to my house and have a listen and you be the judge.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
Edits: 03/25/14
!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
nt
+1 on the Genalex ( re-issue) 12AX7.
Yeah Mike you're nuts, this is an asylum, but I agree with you. So what does that make me? ;-)
A nut to I guess..LOL
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Properly culled Sovtek 12AX7LPS specimens are clean and quiet. Therefore, they are good for phono section service.
"Reissue" Mullard labeled tubes have some of the fabled mid-range accent. That can come in handy for tweaking a system's voice.
The "reissue" TungSol provides a dose of the NJ chime. This variety is another voicing tool.
When buying current production tubes, KNOW the seller! Don't get stuck with unculled crap.
Eli D.
""dose of the NJ chime""
What does this mean. Because I really don't want any! I live in NJ. And if this tube sounds like knuckle headed stereotypes invading the shore, a neigbor with lawn OCD and a Hussquavana (the worlds LOUDESSSSTTTT lawnmower) or a guy on the other block with a chain saw fettish - not the sound I'm looking for.
charles - leaving NJ
Charles, the Tung Sols have a little more sparkle on the top. NJ chime :-)
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