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In Reply to: RE: NOS vs New?? posted by audio39 on August 08, 2012 at 09:44:57
In terms of sonics, new tubes might be catching up or even surpass (GASP!) the sonics of older NOS tubes. For example, the new EL34 PSVane Black Treasures and Gold Lions are highly rated by those who have compared them against NOS EL34s tubes.
However, I am of the opinion that NOS EL34s such as Mullard Xf2s are more durable and will outlast these NEW pretenders such as EH, Mullard Re-issues, Gold Lions and PSVane treasures ... etc and what not.
Another example can also be found in NOS tube rectifiers.
Follow Ups:
NOS RCA 6U8's.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Dr. Greg House
... and put my Mullard xf1, xf2 and xf4 EL34s in a safe place where they can continue to appreciate. Meanwhile I'll listen to my reissue Gold Lion and (sorry, Jim) JJ KT77s because they sound ever so much better than the original Mullards :-)
I guess only time will tell, no?
In that case, will you take one for the team? ;) LOL
In the meantime, I'll continue to enjoy music from my NOS Mullards EL34 Xf2s. They are likely to last for another decade.
only ("...") buy reissues. if sold again, half of their price is lost. old stock tubes keep their value or price has even risen...N.
The times, they are changing...
Edits: 08/11/12
Nunki said what he said. He used the fool word. He didn't swear. Why do the moderators here feel obligated to blank it out? Agree or disagree, why blot out his right to free speech? Very wrong.
no, no mendel, you are wrong! please do not blame the moderators! i myself blanked out that word, made an edit. hope, everything is now o.k. again...:))
The times, they are changing...
Edits: 08/12/12 08/12/12
Ok good to hear! For what it is worth, I agree with you assessment of the Gold Lion reissues and most other new production tubes. Most sound crappy and don't last. NOS usually sounds great and lasts a long time. No question which is the better value for my dollars!
You are entitled to your opinion of course. But I'm entitled to also say that while at one time I might have agreed with you, at present I believe your views are no longer widely held.
Jim:
I respect your opinion and also respect the service you provide to the public, both through you tube sales and service, and the knowledge you share on this site. Everyone knows the tubes you supply are tested and graded better than anyone. Heck, I am a very satisfied customer ( although it was for a set of NOS Russian 6p3c-e which still test and sound new after over a year of use). I know the day will come when NOS will be extinct and new production will be the only game in town (although thanks to our stocking up, that day will never come for me and many of my fellow tube-heads).
Just to clarify, my views are based on experience with my amp and preamp, and not some preconceived view that older must be better. Two of my all-time favorite tubes, the EI KT 90 and Russian 6p3c-e are from the 1990's and 1980's. A tube does not have to be 50 years old to be good.
I don't want to go into the various issues I have had with new production tubes, I will only state that I have tried many (EH KT88, EH 6CA7, JJ KT77, Tung Sol 6L6str, Genelex KT88, Penta Labs KT88, Treasure Series 6CA7) and have had issues with all but the JJs (surprise!) the Pentas and the Treasures. Maybe my bad luck. Didn't get those from you (tubestore.com in Canada to save duty), maybe I should have.
I only suggest that people consider picking up some old stock tubes before they are all gone. If some people are good with all new stock in their amps, I am OK with that to. Just make sure you you get your tubes from somebody you can trust to weed out the duds.
I'm sorry to hear of all the trouble you had with the new production tubes! I was not aware of that - and honestly the huge majority of people don't have any trouble at all. Somehow you got WAY more than your fair share!! Boy, I can't remember the last time I had any trouble with an EH 6CA7 or 6L6GC Tung-Sol.
I agree with what you said - there are some NOS tubes left that people should try if they can; but even if they can't, at least now (unlike 10 years ago) you aren't just out of luck if NOS is out of reach. And despite Mendel's bad experiences there are now a number of remarkable new production tubes.
Thanks for taking the time to post your reply!
I just had a Tungsol 6l6GC take out my Mesa Boogie MKIIC+. It cost me a hundred bucks to get repaired.
However, I did not give up on them because I probably left them in there too long. I put another set in, but this time I will be more careful with the hours.
I don't bother with NOS tubes, and yes I have tried some. With good testing by guys like Jim Mcshane and better quality new production tubes, I don't see the reason for it.
I would agree, so much myth on NOS tubes, with newer tube gear with much better balance, and much more nutural new built tubes can sound just excellent. Pravane 12ax7's I just received sound just wonderful, and I've switched them out with Tele smooth plates, mullards, philips, Brimars etc and and what I heard was kind of the best of all the above tubes, but better dynamics or speed if you like.
PJB
never mind, sir. i am not keen on beeing loved or everyboby`s darling here. just beeing accepted is pretty enough. but i pledge to improve the "sound" of my postings (and my knowledge of english language too...).
:))
The times, they are changing...
Some may buy NOS as an investment, but most buy tubes to use in their amps. Some great new manufacture power tubes such as the Genelex KT88 are a perfect example of wonderful sonics. That tube substancially changed the prices of NOS & used KT88 tubes. Personally I am glad I sold my Tung Sol KT88s before the new KT88 was offered to the public.
Pre-amp tubes sound different in different circuits thus new manufacture may be the perfect ticket for great sonics that suit the individuals requirements. I do use NOS preamp tubes such as Brimar CV4004, Tung Sol 6SL7 round plate & Sylvania 6SN7GTA. These tubes suit my personal sonic requirements, but may not suit another application or another persons perception of great sonics in their circuit.
A tube supplier such as Jim McShane spends a lot of QC time with regard to selling new manufacture tubes with a guarantee & is not dropping a $50 fee on a tube for that QC and other info such as maintaining a good data base of new manufacture tube high performance applications. After all, NOS will run out.
i am very sorry, but i can not understand that hype about GL KT88 reissued power tubes. i tried them in octave V70, welter ACPP60 and mc intosh MC275 power amps/monos. these KT88 make a thin, coloured sound that has nothing in common with dynamic but true and neutral performance. no one can say, i used them in wrong gear.
i purchased them twice and sold them twice again (and lost half of the money twice!)
Nunki
The times, they are changing...
"only fools buy reissues."
I buy and use reissues all the time with great success. Are you calling me a fool?
How about all the other people here that buy, use, and thoroughly enjoy them - are you calling them fools too?
I think you owe MANY of the inmates here an apology. That remark was absolutely uncalled for.
I totally agree with Jim. I use gold lion re-issue tubes in my amp and they sound wonderful. Just because tubes are old doesn't mean they are good???
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