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I am looking for comparisons between the E83CC ribbed and flat plate. Also sonic thumbnail descriptions of any Siemens ECC83, E803S and any other Siemens in this family. It seems the ribbed plate E83CC fetch more money than the flat plate version. I have a pair of ECC83 ribbed plate double support getter that I still haven't listened to yet. Siemens are probably the only 12AX7 type that I haven't used extensively. They fetch big bucks on ebay so they probably are pretty good. All with experience with these please comment. Thanks.
Bart
The smooth plate Siemens-branded E83CC or ECC83 tubes that I have seen were actually EI old production, from "pre-war" Yugoslavia. They have long smooth plates with single getter supports, and etched codes showing "2A1" and the EI factory symbol (a semi-circle with a dot in the center). These EI tubes, marked as ECC83 or E83CC, resemble Telefunken smooth plates in terms of construction features, and apparently were made using Telefunken tooling. I bought two thinking they were actual Siemens, but they are very good tubes in their own right, and I see them on ebay all the time. For guitar amps I think they have a smoother overdriven tone than Telefunkens.
Siemens-made E83CCs have short ribbed plates, dual or triple micas, an "E0" type designation (where the "0" is a naught symbol), and an "unequal to" sign, indicating Munich production. The dual mica tubes have a single getter support. I have only one example of the dual mica version, which looks and sounds like other Philips/Mullard short plate ECC83s to me. As far as I know, it is the only dual mica tube to receive the Siemens "0" (naught) etched type code. But the triple mica version is quite different, and sounds very robust by comparison. It's not a warm tube, sounding brighter than the EI smooth plate, or a Philips/Mullard long plate, but less bright than a Telefunken or Heerlen-Philips. As previous posters have said, it has great accuracy, very tight bottom end, and excellent resistance to microphony. Another tube I have found to have similar qualities is the Brimar "T" 12AX7.
To the best of my knowledge, these E83CC tubes were all produced by Siemens, other than the EI rebranded smooth plate . The triple mica series of E81CC, E82CC, E83CC and 5751 tubes, identified by C0, D0, E0, and R0 type codes respectively, all have the Munich factory mark.
A long while back I placed some Munich-made Siemens/Halske ECC83 into an original Vox AC30 guitar amp. This amp came with Mullard ECC83 as stock. Mullards gave the amp a warm midrange, good bass, nice rounded off top end. Typical early Beatles/Stones "British-Blues" tone. The amp had Blackburn made Mullard EL84's. Running Class "A" cathode-biased. Vox-labeled "Bulldog" speakers.
The Siemens really opened up the amp's top end and tightened the bass. A cleaner, brighter, even more powerful tone. More shimmering reverb tinge to the high notes. Very nice tubes. Kinda made the amp shift a little towards an early Ampeg combo tone (early REM or Byrds tone).
The Munich Siemens and Berlin/Ulm Valvos are very nice tubes. But, good NOS must cost a fortune now (the S&H were expensive ten years ago). If you can find some they lend a very clean high to an amp. Good bass. Yet, maintains a nice midrange. Not as warm as a typical RCA BP or Mullard. Which maybe good or bad, depending on your tastes.
The only E83CC I've used were Philips/Miniwatts. I believe they were Heerlen Holland made. They lend a nice clear tone, a mellow midrange. Not as strong bass as the S&H. More rolled off high end, too. Very good tube.
Really, they are all good tubes. Lend their slight unique signature to the unit. Last a long time and take physical as well as electrical abuse.
Thanks for that response FenderLover. It is exactly the descriptive type post I am looking for. I have tried many 12AX7's and my favorite is the Raytheon BP SG. I have used the RCA BP SG and they are also high on my list (just behind the Raytheon). You are right to point out that because one tube suits your current system and taste better than others, it does not mean it is a "better" tube. I also used the Amperex/Philips (it can have many names) LGP SG that is highly regarded and priced. It is warm with lots of body but compared to the Raytheon and RCA (not to mention almost any 5751) it smears detail to an extent that makes it not usable in my system. I suppose in an overly bright system it would be a viable choice. The only tubes that are inferior to others are the ones that smear detail or have a frequency imbalance. All others are tone controls, ditto for cables.
Bart
My experience with the Siemens-Munich E83CC is similar to Fender Lover's. I use them in the phono section of my pre- and they are my favorite tube in that slot. More balanced up and down - excellent highs and nice tight bass - than 60s Philips Heerlen ECC83, 50s RC long black plates, 50s Tung Sols (though the ones I have of these are fairly long in the tooth), or any modern production (though I have not tried the Sovtek LPS or the new/gone Blackburns.
If they werent so pricey I would buy more of them.
These are very nice tubes, indeed! really, it's hard to find any Raytheon or Tungsol made tube that distracts from the overall tone. I think some folks kinda give up on these tubes (esp the mil spec ones) because they don't give them time to break-in. It's like some mil spec Russian tubes. They can sound very constricted, even constipated, at first. But once they break-in, some of these tubes can have a very long steady-state tone that's hard to duplicate. Kinda cool thing about good tubes.
Have yoyou tried a Telefunken 12AX7? The sonic to my ears is fairly close.
Telefunken and the Siemens tubes were stock, OEMed, pre-amp tubes,of several vintage amp makers.
Look for Oem Sherwoood (Siemens or Teles I own 3 Sherwood amps) Heath, Eico, Scott, "The Fisher" and so on. I can't say who used what other than Sherwood.
It's probably the least expensive way to get them. Smart dealers sell them as Siemens or Telefunkens OEM will not persuade them into heavy discounts. However on ebay you can find them cheaply.
Ask a vintage tube amp aficionado what to look for specifically,to get Siemens.
It is a shame that even if the amp came to me tubed up, the tubes were frequently replaced. A result caused by tube pullers or because they wore out.
Siemens long plate double getter support ecc83 was a very nice and open tube, but try to find old Tungsram welded plate silver pin ecc83.
Rgd.
Tungsram is a manufacturer that Tubemonger used to have in stock but I forget which types.
He gets some really hard to find goods from time to time like the Brimar ECC32 CV1988 GTY from Scratchscay (SP?.)
I have used both the smooth and ribbed plate TFK ECC83. I think for overall tone some of the Munich S&H sounded better. Though I do like the smooth plate TFK that I've tried.
Tungrams are real sleepers, IMHO. They can lend quite a powerful tone to the system. I find they lack a bit of the detail that TFK, S&H, or Valvos have. But, in guitar amps, Tungrams can really bring out great overtones and crunch when pushed hard. I use them in small SE amps, as they help give the amp nice overhead, in kind with bigger push-pull amps. Very nice tubes.
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