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In Reply to: RE: EL34 comparisons posted by Michael Samra on June 30, 2009 at 13:23:12
I've had differing results in Hiwatt & Marshall amps re: Mullards versus Svetlana. I believe that the Svet's (=C=) have better vacuum than the xf1 and xf2, which I believe were made as "cheap" subs for the RCA 6L6GC which were expensive imported item with surtax for English manufacturer's at the time. The thinner construction and lower vacuum of the Mullards gave them the unique tone over the 6L6GC varieties. Not neccesarily better or worse, just different.
To me, the Svetlana sounds a bit closer to the original GEC/MOV KT-77 tone. Have you had a chance to test this tube in your units? For hi-fi apps, I would think the KT-77 and NOS US 6CA7 tone are what most folks are after.
I haven't seen graphs of distortion versus output, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Mullard EL34 have the highest distortion characteristics versus the others (KT-77, 6L6GC, 6CA7, etc).
One other thing, that I've mentioned before, it's very difficult to find GOOD NOS Mullards anymore. I've bought $$$ NOS ones that tested well, but either didn't sound good or were noisy or both. For Marshalls I've resorted to selected JJ or Tesla E34L subs to try and keep the amp as close to the original Mullard tone. Svetlana sound good, but lend a more Fender-ish tone which most Marshall owners do not want. Kinda too bad, as Svets tend to last longer than JJ's.
Have a good one!
Fender, have you tried the Grove Tube XF2 "reissue" in a guitar amp yet? I'm just wondering if it sounds anything at all like the real thing.
Also have you compared the EH 6CA7 to the NOS?
No, I haven't tried the new GT re-issues, yet. As for the 6CA7... The EH 6CA7 tone doesn't compare to the original STR-6CA7 (STR-416) in Mesa Boogie's Mark III (most recent amp I've used 6CA7). The headroom and harmonics seemed to be lacking with the EH tubes.
It could be that the Mesa-Boogie just pushes the power tubes a bit too hard for the EH. I think they run about 490-500 VDC on the plates and 485-490 on the screen. Plus, all the "simul-class" grimmicks may not suit this tube well.
Most EL34 amps get the JJ or Tesla E34L, as those amps with any 6CA7 do NOT sound well (let's just say, not well to guys used to hearing EL34). I remember replacing some GE 6CA7 into a guy's Matchless Cheiftain and just that simple change made the amp sound sterile. Nice bass. Clean highs. No midrange. None of the nice harmonics that makes EL34 unique.
BTW... if you know of anyone that is selling the red or blue glass NOS Tesla EL34 (or better E34L) and the pink ceramic based STR-416 (6CA7), I'd appreciate it.
For some reason I just don't dig Mesa Boogies. Maybe I resent them for being the weapon of choice for the super crappy midrangeless Metallica tone that everyone tried to emulate after. Give me a 4 input Marshall or a Twin and I'm happy. I've always heard that Van Halen used 6CA7 in his magical head so I figured they sounded pretty good. I never had the chance to hear them in action though. From your experience with them I probably shouldn't go out of my way to.
Edits: 07/01/09
you give them 100 to 200 hours break in..They are very well made with a great vacuum and they get better and better over time.
If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
Mike, tonally they remind me of 6L6GC versus the EL34 (in a neutral sounding amp). I was just warning that in the few guitar amps that come with 6CA7 stock, Mesa-Boogie being one of them, the new EH 6CA7 which I tried, didn't seem to like the stock plate voltages and/or oddball bias settings that Mesa-Boogie had in some of their amps, at the time.
Mike, tonally they remind me of 6L6GC versus the EL34 (in a neutral sounding amp). I was just warning that in the few guitar amps that come with 6CA7 stock, Mesa-Boogie being one of them, the new EH 6CA7 which I tried, didn't seem to like the stock plate voltages and/or oddball bias settings that Mesa-Boogie had in some of their amps, at the time
Steve
I dont doubt that at all..I wish I knew more about guitar amps and I could have more input especially if I knew how to play but,we have you and a couple others so that will get us by.
If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
believe that the Svet's (=C=) have better vacuum than the xf1 and xf2, which I believe were made as "cheap
Steve,you hit it in a nutshell..The vacuum on the el34s especially the vintage ones are soft.That somtimes gives it a desirability on some frequencies as it tends to roll off the high end and by doing that, you hear more of the midrange and because the mids are where 85% of the music is,some may like it.
The history of the EL34 is kind of interesting because the MOV company,wanted somthing cheaper,and easier to build and easier to drive with a slim profile that would replace the EL37 which is esentially a 6L6gc .The el34 is what they came up with and it had mixed reviews.You had people like Peter Walker from Quad that tried the EL34s with the ESL 57s and that was a no go so he stuck with the Kt66s being they were more linear..This was a lot of the reason I never use an EL34 based amp with the Martin Logans or the acoustats..I could never get any high end or upper midrange detail but strangely,the 6ca7s worked fine.I think possibly the ESLs may produce back EMF by design and that could be why the EL34 reacts to them differently.
If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
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