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This tubes looks to me (from the data sheets) like it is a direct substitute for the 6922 and will run as 6922 without any stress. Is this correct?
That makes it a substitute for the 6DJ8, too. But the 6DJ8 runs at lower voltages than the 6922 and, depending on the bias used, some 6DJ8s won't last long when run in place of 6922.
So, is the 6N23P a closer sub to the 6922 or should it only be run as 6DJ8 sub?
Greetings from the sunny Brønshøj riveria on the banks of the lovely Utterslev Mose
Follow Ups:
Frihed89,
The 6H23p has been sometimes called the equivalent to the 6DJ8 and the "-EB" on the end is the 6922 equivalent.
However, the Russian 6DJ8 family tubes seem to have higher ratings for current handling than the Western European designations:
6DJ8 ratings:
ECC88 = 6DJ8-- 130V/1,8W
E88CC= 6922 -- 220V/1,8W
E188CC= 7308 -- 250V/2W
6H23p Sovtek 6922-- 300V/1,8W
6H23p-EB/ EH 6922-- 300V/2W
-so actually, the plain 6H23p has a rating like a 6922 and the -EB is more E188CC / 7308.
You're right to take care when choosing from the 6DJ8 family. In the Audio Research SP10, some people get only a hundred hours from 6DJ8s and I've heard of even the rugged Siemens 6922s not lasting a very long time. The Audible Illusions Modulus 3 is said to need tough tubes as well. In my SP10, I'm using E188CC for the gain tubes and Sovteks elsewhere. In the near future, I'm revising the 7308s and changing the Sovteks to NOS Tungsram E88CC, and wehich are said to be tough and quiet.
Where are you using 6922s?
Cheers,
Bambi B
That's where i plan to use them. Right now, I am using a new production EH 6922, but I have a lower voltage switch for the 6DJ8. The designer at Blue Circle runs the 6922 at higher than usual (but lower than max) voltage as he prefers to bias the tube a bit off the linear part of the curve to get the sonic results he likes. So, maybe I'll play it safe.
One tube expert I know says the 6N23P is the "parent" of the EH6922.
Greetings from the sunny Brønshøj riveria on the banks of the lovely Utterslev Mose
Frihed89,
If your Blue Circle can accomodate the 6DJ8, I'd suggest trying them and you may have a difficult time going back to 6922s. For me, the 6DJ8s have always pleased more than 6922s or 7308s. In the SP10- years ago, I tried a pair of moderately used white labelled Amperex ECC88s and the sound was fantastic as compared to the Amperex E188CCs- the 6DJ8 was much more open and dynamic and the soundstage deeper and wider. The problem was, one of those tubes became very noisy after only 10 hours. I didn't wait to ruin the other one and back went the 7308s.
There was a poster here with an SP10 who had dozens of NOS Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88s and liked the sound so much he uses them more or less sacrificially- knowing they will last a relatively short time. In my memory though he was having something like a hundred hours on those.
Given the cost of NOS 6DJ8 family tubes now, it's wise to pay attention to which tubes will last. And, given your preamp has a magic switch specifically to be able to use ECC88- how I wish the SP10 had that!, it opens up a lot of choices with some of the best sounds from that tube group.
Cheers,
Bambi B
I haven't as much peeked at anything but data sheets.
Greetings from the sunny Brønshøj riveria on the banks of the lovely Utterslev Mose
Frihed89,
I tried several 6DJ8s in the SP10 until learning they would be short lived, mainly in the Philips/Amperex/Valvo family. In the SP10, the best sounding of all were early 60's Amperex Heerlen ECC88 with white labelling. These had a wonderful wide and deep soundstage and the kind of effortless, open bass I like. When I heard these I thought I'd really found the tube that would reveal the best aspects of the preamp. Then, after about 10 hours- one became an amazing noisemaker. I checked for a photo of these, but couldn't find one.
A co-favourite though is the Amperex Bugle Boy from the early to mid 60's. It's really much like the white print ones, but in some way seems more "delicate" or subtle, perhaps better balanced top to bottom, but a bit less forcelful.
The other ECC88 I grew fond of was the Amperex A-Frame- the getter is supprted on a pair of very strong flat bars that lean inwards. Some have commented that the A-frames are not as supple as the splatter shield 6DJ8, and even a bit hard, but my experience was of a more energetic approach while retaining that very open quality I like in the 6DJ8.
I should mention that I never spent much time with either Mullards or Telefunken ECC88, both of which some people really like. I had a pair of very old, heavily used Telefunkens that a repair shop gave me- pulls from an oscilliscope- and though they were quiet, I thought the sound was too lean- very dynamic and great natural timbre, but I didn't have the sense of authority of the white labelled Amperex. The Mullards I tried very briefly were late ones- late 70's? and I thought actually a bit unrefined at the extremes- hard treble, -nice in the middle-, and the bass was slightly opaque.
My recommendation for you- given where you live- would be to shop on German Ebay. The German seller diebu- and in fact alll the German sellers I know are serious about testing and giving real descriptions, plus the prices even with the strong Euro are still lower than in the US. As well, when the same tube is labeled Valvo instead of Amperex, it costs much less. I was thinking you might want to try two or more kinds before settling on one and Ebay DE might make this less painful!
That said, these days, you might spend less buying thouroughly tested ones form a dealer that tests fro noise and microphonics like Kevin Deal and with whom a return policy might be established. I spent quite a lot on the 6DJ8 types and calculate only 1/4 of the tubes I bought could be used in the SP10, which uses 12. I use the type in the SP8 (2) and the D155 amplifier (3) but the SP8 ones don't have a sonic impact and will be 6922s.
Cheers,
Bambi B
6DJ8 [17] 4 low noise, 2, 8, 3 TOTAL: 111 (> )
6- Philips Miniwatt E188CC- Holland- NOS
6- Philips SQ E188CC- Holland -NOS- VR9
5- Valvo E188CC- Holland- VR5- NOS
2- Valvo E188CC- Holland- NOS [60 9.18.07
5- Amperex Globe-ECC88 A frame-NOS
> > 3- RAM- ECC88 SA low noise Amperex A frame-NEW < <
6- RAM - A std- Ampx - A frame- NEW
4- RAM -AA std- Ampx A frame -NEW
> > 5- Amperex White Logo ECC88- Holland- USED < <
8- Amperex Orange Globe ECC88- USED
2- Harma 6922- 6H23p-EB- NOS
10-Russian 6DJ8- NOS
14-Russian 6DJ8 -NOS
> > 3- Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88- USED < <
28- Tungsram E88CC- Red label- steel pins- Hungary- NOS 69-79 [15
2- Siemens &H E88CC- A-frame, gp- Germany- NOS [50
1- Siemens &H E188CC- Germany -NOS [50
2- Siemens & H- E88CC- splatter- Germany - NOS [40
1- Valvo E88CC- Red label, Holland- NOS [35
1- Philips E88CC- Holland- NOS [35
2- Telefunken ECC88- DE- USED [0
1- Siemens E88CC- NOS
2- Amperex US CEP E188CC- ANOS
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