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In Reply to: RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs? posted by Triode_Kingdom on November 22, 2015 at 23:23:19
I prefer push pull DHT's over SET for a system that can reasonably reproduce a symphony at realistic volumes. A little "magic" sacrificed but usually more coherent. I personally think there is more benefit in direct heating, than there is in single ended.
Cornwalls always sound thin to me too. And to a lot of other people. Taste, room, system, etc etc. if you don't like, keep looking. You should try an Altec or JBL based system if you have the space
I use pp 6B4Gs on a 93db system (JBL based, L300 drivers). I am seriously looking at the InIow 135s described below; trying to figure out how to slip a pair of 40hz front horns into the living room below those without the wife noticing
But I'll stay with pp DHTs
Follow Ups:
Have you heard set dht? It is great.
Of course! Can't swing a cat in this neighborhood without hitting an SET. I have built a few; liked the 45 the best. I would try a pp 45 amp if pairs of RCA 45s were easier to find.
For me, the first "wump" of a bass drum, PP DHT typically kicks SE DHT to the curb - unless it's a full out all front horn system, then it's close.
Some of the exotic kilovolt SETs are fantastic, but out of most of our comfort and wallet zones...
I mean dht outputs driven by dht drivers, like the 26/26/45 I am going to build soon. Best sound I ever heard. Of course I am not a fan of heavy rock and roll bass either; if it plays a symphonic orchestra double bass well I am happy.
Edits: 11/24/15
"For me, the first "wump" of a bass drum, PP DHT typically kicks SE DHT to the curb..."
Yeah, IMO SET's don't do bass for three reasons.
Not enough power, not enough primary inductance and too high an output impedance.
Bi amp with SS driving the woofers and SET on top. Problem solved. As least for me. All the magic and all the slam.
YMMV
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I often read about "bass slam" and I don't subscribe to it because....... I'm a bass player.
Maybe I don't need to hear that much bass - I know what it does, and I can fill in a lot of its function in my head. Kind of "the shoemakers children have no shoes..."
But another reason is that what I want to hear is clean and well defined bass with TONE rather than "slam". I play double bass and that actually doesn't have much "slam" - the response is pretty even right down from top to bottom.
"Slam" is usually artificial - electronically boosted bass as in Reggae etc. It's an effect, and not a product of acoustic instruments.
"Slam" is usually artificial - electronically boosted bass as in Reggae etc. It's an effect, and not a product of acoustic instruments.
+1
Nope thats not slam and it has nothing to do with reggae ... :)
Go Rossi ......
When I think of "slam" I think of the Ravel/Moussorgsky Pictures at an Exhibition - particularly the final Great Gate of Kiev section, with some very enthusiastic orchestral bass drums. Or the 1812 overture with its cannon shots. It's an impulse sound, with a very high peak pressure requiring a lot of momentary acoustic energy at very low frequencies. Huge transformer inductance helps - many SETs have a power bandwidth that falls off below 50Hz - but loud bass impulses are still likely to place the most severe power requirements on an amplifier.
It is often claimed the tube watts (especially SET watts) are somehow bigger than solid-state watts. IMHO that's just because SETs overload gracefully, so you can operate them into occasional overload without noticing. Big bass transients expose their limitations, partly because the frequency range between the bass transient and the midrange is too great for the ear's masking effect to cover up the distortion.
Tre: "Andy, to me the whole point of a custom system is to not have to "fill in a lot [] in my head". It should just all be there. "LOL. Pretty hard to argue with that.
I just think "slam" is totally the wrong word for an acoustic bass, amplified or not. It suggests that the bass is boosted, which as you and I know it shouldn't be. I'd be much happier with a different word, but that's what's in current usage.
Edits: 11/24/15
I agree, it was a bad choice of a word.
"proper authority" is better.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
z
Like "Shut Yo Mouth" with Major Holley, Dick Hyman and Oliver Jackson.
Not slam. But a nice solid "wump" not "waaUMPth"
Tone, attacks and decays. If those aren't right it drives me nuts.
Maybe I used the wrong word.
I'm a recording engineer, I know what both electric and acoustic instruments sound like.
Use whatever word you want, IMO SET does not do bass correctly for the 3 reasons I gave.
Maybe I should have said "All the magic (in the mids and highs) and all the proper authority in the bass".
Andy, to me the whole point of a custom system is to not have to "fill in a lot [] in my head". It should just all be there.
My intent wasn't to argue the point, but to share my experience and technical knowledge.
IMO (and according to my technical understanding) flea powered SET's don't do bass correctly and I will not be convinced otherwise. Ive been there, done that.
Peace and Happy Thanksgiving.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
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