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In Reply to: RE: Advice please: cathode and power supply capacitors posted by 91derlust on July 03, 2015 at 19:32:08
I've been in the field since 1960 (audio equipment/tv/radio repairman, amp designer/builder, etc.) and this question has raged for the duration. I'll add to the good points already made that blind listening tests can be of great value- simply take a selection of cathode bypass caps, for example, attach tiny alligators to the leads, and have a trusted friend swap them out after which you listen to the same 30-60 second music selection. First, determine if you can differentiate between them consistently. Then, try to narrow down your selection accordingly. I've found that consistent listening over time doesn't necessarily work as we tend to equilibrate to a particular sound. I realize that this is considered a heretical view by some. Also, a good read is a paper by Rod Elliott on capacitors:
Follow Ups:
I tend to think that the equilibrate can be used to improve our understanding also... because that is how we listen to the end product. External validity and all that jazz.
Getting a little off topic and FYI:No one approach to investigation and experimentation can provide complete understanding. IIRC, my introductory clinical research text outlined the strengths and weaknesses of different approaches to research... and even the accepted gold standard approaches have weaknesses that are addressed by other methods.
Regards,
91.
Edits: 07/05/15
SETguy,
Its HARD to listen "critically" through long leads and alligator clips !!
Anyone interested in audio, and capacitors, may do well to read the entire 43 page thread, URL below.
Have fun, I bookmarked and / or copied to a file all the better posts, ones where I learned new things.
Jeff Medwin
I have been following it on and off for a few years now.
Listening through clips and small leads for comparative purposes should help identify some gross differences between capacitors. If that is the reason for performing the test, then it is suitable. As you allude to, it does not tell the whole story though. One limitation is that we perceive differently when relaxed and listening to music for enjoyment - the intended end-use - versus critical listening. Another is that something might sound different when clipped in rather than fully built-in as part of the final product.
Regards,
91.
91, you certanly have an excellent grasp of the issues. Jeff is, of course, correct that using clip leads is far from ideal but for quick comparisons of different caps I don't know of a better way given how short auditory memory is. And another point about long-term listening is that it is highly influenced by our psychological and physical state on a given day. So, if we slept poorly, had gas pains from eating too many beans, got bitten by the neighbor's cat, etc., our perception of how the system sounds can certainly be influenced. The last point is that caps often have a +/- 20% value tolerance. So, if one cap we try is 20% low, and another 20% high, there's enough difference to affect what we hear with some program material. That necessitates matching values which can be a costly endeavor. There is just no easy answer to this issue. Be prepared though that once "sonic perfection" is achieved there will be a day on which you turn on the system, decide that it sounds like crap, and start the process all over again!
Yeah, I hear you loud and clear... especially regarding the gas pains ;^)
Seriously though, thanks so much for your input - it is really helpful.
Cheers,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
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