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152.132.10.193
Reference from posting below.
Just looking for comments and peoples experiences.
Follow Ups:
Bet you won't like it.
High storage PSUs sound better, always.
ESR matters, just a bit, at HF.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Because all the compromises you have to make, ( large value chokes, larger values of capacitance , poor executions, poor layout and wiring ) to get the supply filter to the Finals "quiet" destroys the speed and dynamic expression, inherent in the original music, and M.I.A. in the amp, if it is made to be "real quiet".NOTE : When you HEAR this in a properly executed amp, it is FULLY understood. End of discussion.
Come to RMAF Oct 2-4 and you will be able to do so.
Front ends need to be quiet, 1 mVAC or less is peachy.
Jeff Medwin
Edits: 06/17/15
I am sure your new SE 45 amp will be a big hit at RMAF.
Best luck to you and DF.
DT667
I am certainly NOT taking that Type 45 amp to RMAF !!'Had connecting rods go out on my Crown Vic Police Interceptor, so amp is to soon be offered on eBay, to raise some extra cash, 'need to purchase yet another car.
I plan to visit Dennis at Denver's RMAF, specifically to hear his latest 2015 amps, and help out "any way" at his Serious Stereo exhibit, in a new and better room this year.
Jeff Medwin
Edits: 06/18/15 06/18/15
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This topic has been discussed to death. You've got most of the answers already, and it's easy to research. The bottom line is that no competent designer creates amps that hum.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
You are correct.
I haven't visited audioasylum in six months or so, and it's disappointing to see that things haven't changed much. Same old topics, same old point of view (or is it an imperative?) from one individual in particular.
Triode Kingdom, I certainly agree with you view on that, however, even the most carefully designed amps will age just like everything else in the world. Sad but true.
The most skillfully designed amp could start to hum if its caps start getting leaky due to old age. That of course doesn't mean the amp was poorly designed, it just means that it needs fresh caps.
Maybe not a good comparison but even the absolute best roadster will need new tires after a number of miles. The best guitars will need new strings. et.al.
Again, I agree with your premise. I would be puzzled though why someone with the funds to purchase such an amp would be satisfied listening to a hum? I certainly can't afford a top-of-the-line amp and even I don't like hum! LOL
just my 2 cents worth
roN
I'm sure what the OP is referring to are the amp designs with hum due to design short comings, not normal aging and maintenance.
IMO, this is classic snake oil marketing by those who promote it. - Let's take all the negative side effects of our product and spin them into advantages. Science be damned!
Music sounds better with just a little hum carefully mixed in! Really?
+1
"Let's take all the negative side effects of our product and spin them into advantages. Science be damned!"
What does science have to do with it? My ears are better than your ears anyway... Does that ring a bell? ;-)
The purpose of an ideal amplifier is to reproduce the input signal identically except for higher amplitude.
So IIRC, a standard orchestra has 106 instruments? So which of those 106 instruments is the 50/60hz hum generator?
It could be that... or not.
Unfortunately, the realm of the subjective can be exploited by the style of reasoning you suggest - and frequently is, no doubt - but it can difficult to categorise who is being malicious, ill-conceived, genuinely naive, or perhaps have a point. Often, it is not possible to tell from what people type.
Regards,
91.
P.S. That is my final OT post to this thread. Apols.
.
You might want to read what Tube Lab has to say about 60 cycle AC heating on DHT filaments.
120 cycle AC ripple is more an issue of filtering.
It can be confusing to decide what is best practice.
not confusing for me... if the amp is dead quiet with my Khorns {and I build them whereby they ARE}, then I have no use for dc on the the filaments of an amp... which sounds like some of the 'life' of the recording is missing. DC filament should stay where it belongs, in a preamplifier and phono.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
What was the DC supply like?
Bridge cap resistor cap?
Or was it choke input filter. LCRC?
Did you retain the hum pot or ground one end?
My point is, not all DC filament supplies are created equal.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
The hum blots out the finer details so you focus on the larger picture.
Yes, that's why you use a diffusing enlarger, not a condensing enlarger, when printing female photo portraits. A sharp negative is just fine. You can't put back info. (optical or auditory), that's been discarded. However, info. can always be discarded, when a situation requires such an action.
Like tube electronics, silver halide photography is "obsolete". NOT! JMO, well functioning older technologies should be augmented, not discarded.
Eli D.
There is likely a coloration involved but that would probably be available without the hum.
Hum generally means something isn't sorted out or its busted.
Perhaps proof that subjective opinions can be as important as objective data. Which really should not matter. If the darn thing sounds good to you --- should be good enough.
Never find the Unicorn, no matter how many different paths you take. Or all the wise sage's advice.
8^)
Good thinking !! Trust your ears.
Jeff
cannot tolerate hum that is audible at the listening position, then it is equally valid to say that hum must be eliminated. The subjective world has infinite degrees of freedom.
.
and that is as it should be ....
"The subjective world has infinite degrees of freedom."
Good point.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Yep, trust your ears (and brain) for identifying what YOU like... that is different to what is Truth, or absolute best.
Regards,
91
Everyone has their own set of preferences but just because someone likes the sound of a system doesn't mean that that system is good.A lot of people like the sound of cheap Japanese receivers and Bose 901 speakers.
Lynn Olson dismisses the idea of "accuracy" but then says,
"Having described audio systems as a special class of Illusion Engine (like THC, psylocybin, ethyl alcohol, Vision Quest, etc), there's one group for whom the word "accuracy" actually conveys meaning: recording and broadcast organizations with ready access to professional musicians. For the last 30 years, BBC monitor speakers have been subjectively assessed by rapidly walking between the control booth and the performing hall. The short trip is a quick reality check, and the BBC and other national broadcasting organizations command the resources to have both large groups of professional musicians and the engineering talent to design high-quality monitoring loudspeakers. "
In my mind a system is either doing a good job in the above context or it's not....preferences be damned.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 06/18/15
Yep, and they did not design for flat frequency response... IIRC, the "BBC Dip".
The thing is, we all listen differently to music, whether live or reproduced. Whilst different people's goals may be objective, of sorts, the methods are not... This is most obvious when discussing the external validity (outcomes in practice) of approaches... and surely it is the external validity that must be the final "objective"?
Yeah, more questions than answers and all that. Okay, okay - back on topic.
Regards,
91.
mt
What IS subjective is personal taste in sonics. Let's not confuse the two. Some people want their music to sound like crap, so they build amplifiers that hum.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
A lot people think this hobby is 100% subjective. I think that is a determent to the hobby.
To me the goal is objective. The rub comes when we have to use our subjective senses to determine if we are meeting the objective goal.
It takes a trained ear. Not all opinions are equal.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
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