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In Reply to: RE: But, but , but... posted by danlaudionut on February 21, 2015 at 09:15:45
Where you have to look is for a given voltage and current for the 6L6GC and the EL34, then look at the Zout for each, you will see that the Zout for the 6L6GC is over twice that of the EL34 for comparable conditions. They are very different tubes and just because they have the same pin out (more or less) and bias in the same general vicinity, does not mean that they are electrically identical. The circuit that is optimized for the EL34 is not optimized for the 6L6GC. That is all I am saying.
Follow Ups:
No, what you said was ...
"But why on earth would you not just use EL34 tubes?"
And I told you why - better sound.
DanL
I said that plugging in 6L6 into an amp set up for EL34 was suboptimal.
You said "Not if you get 6L6GCs which most current production are."
I said that that is nonsense.
You said: I like them better anyway.
To that I say, I am happy for you, but they could be used better placed in a circuit designed for them.
> The 6L6 has twice the Plate resistance
> and puts out half the power as the EL34.
> > Not if you get 6L6GCs which
> > most current production are.
> The circuit that is optimized for the EL34
> is not optimized for the 6L6GC.
> > (but get) better sound
You may get fewer watts but you get better sound
with either the 6L6GC or KT66 than any EL34.
Hence the response to ...
But why on earth would you not just use EL34 tubes?
Optimize just means the most watts.
6L6 family is much more linear.
KT66 has details and extension that are phenominal.
By comparison the EL34 is just bland.
IMO Sacrifice a few watts for improved sound.
DanL
"KT66 has details and extension that are phenominal. By comparison the EL34 is just bland."
You say this is though it's an established fact. Is that true? Is there confirmation of this from an authoritative (commercial or academic) source? Does it apply to EL34s in both pentode and UL mode?
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
nada aqui
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
TK
CAUTION
You are starting to sound like a troll.
DanL
No, you just didn't get it. The sound of an amplifier is the product of many things. OPTs, coupling caps, class of operation, driver and output stage operating conditions, power supply, brands and conditions of tubes, etc., etc. I don't believe anyone can say 6L6 amplifiers categorically sound better then EL34s, and I was surprised that you said otherwise as though it's a fact. I'm not criticizing your opinion, but that's all it is - an opinion. Anyway, your inability to reference an authoritative source for this clarifies the issue for me. No need to drag it out.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
This is true BUT ...
You will never get a 4 cylinder VW engine
sound anything like the Viper V10.
And you will never get an EL84 amp
sound anything like a KT88 amp.
Tube choice IS the main factor in amp sound.
All other factors influence the sound
but tube choice is the building block.
DanL
I stick with Thoriated, DH tubes...unfortunately there are no DH tubes with the characteristics of the TV horizontal outputs, and those can sound quite good. 25 watt plates wrapped around a 2.5A cathode are not to be despised....and EL84's make fine signal tubes...:)
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
so, I was reading the 3rd edition Radiotron book last night wherein they mention an expensive way to sidestep using feedback for a push/pull Pentode/beam tetrode by redesigning the output transformer... Is that what your latest 813 schemo entails?
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
I should look for that, have you a page number?
I do doubt it is what I am running, that being the E-Linear circuit with a LTP attached to 20 or 30% U-L taps on the plate winding. The 813's are going to get replaced with the original 4E27, and whilst I am under the hood, the 6H6Pi-under-FQP1N60 cascode is going to get replaced with a pair of EL84's.
That deals with output Z nicely; the local FB drops the plate Z of the pentodes nicely...which also benefits the low end response. Will probably hook the final's g2 to 20% and the front end LTP to 30%.
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
Page 40, under the heading "Application of Negative Feedback"
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
I guess I need to find a copy of Radiotronics 76( 26th May, 1937), pages 42-44...:)
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
I didn't have that one either Douglas.
The flywheel discourse DID remind me ... when reading these REAL old Ham books... that the use of three chokes in series {do not recall anything else} could slightly increase the B+. Had I been further along in learning I would have been far more interested, than I was @ the time.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Looks like a fun treasure hunt; I'd not mind seeing what they are talking about.
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
DanL
So, it's only your opinion and a few anonymous others? I assume David Hafler isn't among them? :)
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Mine, Mikey and Cleantimestream
I have others that post me off-line
that concur with my assesment.
I will not divulge their identity
because that would be wrong.
You have three here so not
"a few anonymous others".
DanL
C'mon, a whole "three people" is enough to make this a fact, not an opinion? OK, whatever you say.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Since you have not heard them
(or you would have said so).
My three (plus un-named others)
definitely trumps your "opinion".
DanL
PS Also I not heard ANY dissenting opinions.
It's not a contest. You presented it as though it was a fact, but apparently it's not. That's all I was asking.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
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