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In Reply to: RE: obsession(s) with tiny differenences... posted by Jim Dowdy on January 29, 2015 at 13:31:29
"While I do not endorse everything Jeff/Dennis posit - the fact remains that they continue to post real ideas and/or schematics..."
It's the same old crap year after year!
"inch of wire can wreck a musical experience"
"anything over 20ohms DCR is lofi"
"music has immeasurable rise times, faster than even a 2ghz scope could measure"
There is nothing new or groundbreaking from these guys. Never has been!
Follow Ups:
NT
My KT88 monoblock power supply. Driver regulator is on another page.
But, do you really consider it to be significantly (and/or superior) to a bazillion other approaches to power supply designs?
More importantly: have you listened?
Edits: 01/29/15 01/29/15
"But, do you really consider it to be significantly (and/or superior) to a bazillion other approaches to power supply designs?
More importantly: have you listened?"I don't consider it superior to anything?
Did I imply that?
I am rather proud if that protection circuit but it's nothing any competent engineer or technician couldn't devise - perhaps even improve on.
As for listening what kind of a question is that? I go to all that trouble and don't listen to it? Here are the three KT88 and 6V6 amps in a 5.1 HT system in my home from 2006 to 2014. That unit at the top with the silver cans was the three channel active crossover. All 12AX7 cathode followers and LF/HF the filter networks are in those plug in cans which were former crystal ovens.
It's been replaced by DIY SS amps just last year. Was time to build something new.
And the crossover is now a MiniDSP unit. I am having blast experimenting with FIR and IIR filters. Puts some of that long forgotten college math to use finally!
Edits: 01/29/15 01/29/15 01/29/15 01/29/15
Thanks for posting. The time and effort is impressive. Nice to be passionate about something without shoving it down everyone's throat.
All I can suggest at this point is to compare it to a non-regulated mercury-vapor rectified L-filter...and let us all know what you think.
Edits: 01/29/15
That big nasty dangerous landfill hazard MV rectifier would sure look cool in the right setting but I'm not sure how it would improve the sound of my KT88 amps over my PS?What will the MV rectifier do over the Cree CTFW rectifier I used? I'll tell you one thing, it could spit out a lot of RFI!
P.S. I would have a bit of a mounting problem too. MV's don't work horizontal AFAIK?
Edits: 01/29/15
Have you tried it?
Have you listened?
I just asked you who apparently has, what the performance gain is. If you can give me some reasons in engineering speak why an MV would be superior to the Cree diodes I'm all ears.But from my knowledge MV rectifiers which do have a lower voltage drop than diode tubes, they are no match for even a lowly 1N4007 in this application. They do (did) excel in high power applications like subway traction systems and transmitters. But even that was eclipsed by silicon diodes as far back as the 1960s.
Again just what am I to expect in performance gain before I go on a wild goose chase to even find good MVs these days let alone build out the support structure to use them properly?
Edits: 01/29/15
You should try it if you are curious about exploring sound and the possibilities of higher fidelity.
However, if you are fearful of having your preconceptions challenged, you should run in the opposite direction.
to gusser's supply?
Dave
to many, many similar supplies...and they all sound like absolute crap compared to a simple MV-rectified dual L-filter.
Have you compared?
I haven't and I'm not making any claims about either. Trying to get a basis for your comments on how his supply sounds though.
Sounds like you have a preference and you know what it is, do you think everyone should have the same preference?
Dave
For full-range musical reproduction, I believe so.
That explains your position, not a view I can get with. I wonder how you feel about people that feel similarly but about a different set of preferences.
Dave
I am certainly open to other's opinions/experiences; but if you've built literally dozens of power supplies and find one approach consistently sounds best, it is folly to pretend otherwise.
"you think it sounds best" is somewhat different from "it does sound best" or "everyone else should think it sounds best".
Dave
But I've engaged in literally dozens of listening tests, and the MV rectified L-filter always wins.
Who wants to hear a rectifier? lol
If you can hear that, what you are hearing the windings of the generator at your local power plant.
Maybe they are wound in silver?
....to you.
Dave
Is your point that perhaps 10% thought otherwise?If so, what does that imply?
Edits: 01/29/15
If you're claiming that 90% of listeners will hear a difference with the same circuit but with MV rectifiers (assuming LCLC) and their preference will be for the MV, then I'd love to see evidence of such a consensus.
Dave
You suggest I buy rare and expensive components like MV rectifiers. I simply ask what the expected improvements would be. I further point out some well documented information about MV rectifiers. I have no personal experience, I have never used them.
I just asked, twice now, politely I beleive, what the benefits are over modern diodes.
And this is your sarcastic response:
"You should try it if you are curious about exploring sound and the possibilities of higher fidelity.
However, if you are fearful of having your preconceptions challenged, you should run in the opposite direction."
Exactly how does one kindly answer such a question?
The benefits are that it sounds better.
"Exactly how does one kindly answer such a question?
The benefits are that it sounds better."I ask for some technical information why I should use MV rectifiers and that is all you can offer? I even point out some of the documented deficiencies with MV rectifiers and you accuse me of "running away"
Why can't we carry on a technical engineering discussion as to what differences the MV rectifiers are producing in the final DC output that changes the amps performance?
I think I know the answer. That is, you don't know what is going on in those power supplies from an engineering viewpoint.
You are just another Dennis Fraker!
You sell a few amplifiers you build. Probably circuits from some old magazine and you soldered some parts together and it made sound. Then you sprinkle it with all kinds of audiophile voodoo to kick the price up a few grand.
But you have no clue how these circuits actually work. Your insecurity speaks volumes as well. I post a schematic as you requested and the first thing you do is to challenge me as to why I think it's a superior design. I never said it was. Then you say it sounds like crap! How do you know?
What a phony!
Edits: 01/29/15
I suggested that you try an approach that I believe sounds better. I am unsure what my suggestions have to do with Dennis Fraker...or anyone else.
My sole motivation was to assist (you and) the DIY community in exploring possible sonic improvements; and the reality is that I do not know why MV rectifiers sound better - nor do I believe anyone else really knows the answer to that question.
But just so we're clear: I don't give a rat's ass if you try it or not.
Jim,
Did you run I the same circle as the cat out in Oregon that run 211s with MV rectifiers?
I knew him about 15 years ago. I believe he was a rec. audio guy. I don't recall his name
I'm in metro Atlanta, GA - the only Oregon (Portland area) tube guys I recall are Gary Pimm and Ed Billeci.
I know that Lynn Olsen was originally from there as well...
Does that help?
Yes. Crazy Eddie. He was into MV rectifiers a long time ago. Is he still around?
That's a good question.
Ed and I used to actively trade parts back in the '90s - I saw him at several of the VSACs, but lost track of him about 10 years ago...would love to know where he is.
He always had killer stuff!!!!!
Analyze it. It a big stiff DC B+ supply for the finals. The driver stage has a tight MOSFET regulator. The bias supply is well filtered and regulated. You may note the separate AC power connector for the filament supply. That is fed from a Sola ferroresonant transformer to keep the filaments at 6.2v via R16. I found new tubes to be much less forgiving to high filament voltage than NOS.
Now what about all the solid sate stuff? Does the use of a timer IC and a few transistors color the sound? Some audiophool will say it does!
That circuit is modern protection. Lose the filament buss and no power for the B+ transformer relay. Analyze the network of Q2, D5, R13, R14. Lose the bias voltage and the B+ supply goes down as well.
As an "M", why don't you, Dennis and Jeff talk to moderators about a LSES sub forum so the rest of us don't have to be subjected to it?
What are you talking about?
I challenge you to find any of my posts that were not directed at trying to assist the DIY community.
I sell (at most) five amplifiers per year, and have never once hawked my amplifiers on this site.
Edits: 01/29/15 01/29/15
Jeff counts you as a compatriot from the old days. I believe he thinks that anyone that wrote a letter to Sound Practices to be in his camp. If that's not the case, blame him.
I have noticed a distinct trend from a number of the "old guard"(and I mean guys from the '90's) to stand beside each other as though their dogma was somehow related to a holy grail type of belief system. I have all of the SP issues and read them religiously and still believe in the attitude. I also think that guys like JC Morrison, Herb Reichert and Thomas Meyer still know more about tube audio design than 99% of the posters here. Specifically including JM, DF, and you JD. So, go ahead and support your buddies, they and you need it. You sell snake oil, promote magic beans and try to subvert real understanding of electronics and the appreciation of music.
Naturally, I expect you to refute these claims and I encourage you to do so,it will only fan the fires of opposition.
Edits: 01/29/15
Jeff Medwin is among my oldest of audio acquaintances; and I will never forget/deny his influence.One of my very earliest audio recollections goes back to around 1981: I had a highly-modified Stereo 70 that I imagined could not be significantly improved upon; and, Jeff recommended that I replace the external (multi-Farad) capacitor bank with a single 100 uf oil cap - I thought he was nuts - but, oh my God, it was a HUGE improvement!
More importantly, it is significant to recognize that this was at a time when absolutely no one acknowledged that oil caps (or less capacitance) might actually sound better.While I do not automatically endorse everything Jeff says: he has great ears, is a true mensch, and is totally dedicated to helping the DIY Audio community.
For me: I believe in honesty, and I believe in supporting whatever gets you closer to reveling in music.
Edits: 01/29/15
What your suggest would be hard to do.....fortunately I am married. Anyway, you don't have to support Dennis and Jeff. I was just thinking that a sub forum would be a way to clear some of the noise here. Do you think a sub forum would have some merit? A "Modern Power Supply" forum or something like that?
.
But: I have not advocated 'modern power supplies' (nor do I even know what that means), and I do not consider my posts to be noise.
Ask Dennis and Jeff. Their LSES idea is part of their modern power supply concept. Their ideology...not mine.
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