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In Reply to: RE: You may have made a mistake with your modelling posted by Stephen R on January 28, 2015 at 05:15:26
"Sims provide us with a lot of data. Interpretation of that data can be open to preconceived ideas. All sorts of conclusions can be arrived at. If the model isn't performing correctly, there could be a whole bunch of reasons why."
Really? I did not know that. Thanks.
Despite the attempted revisions, the negatives of low inductance and capacitance are present in all the models.
"From the sidelines, I think Dave is trying to point you at getting the thing to run correctly in the first place, then you can alter things to see what effects your idea of an LSES supply will do or not do."
No, that is just what you think.
If he wanted to show the effects of the LSES in what he considered a good simulation, he would have provided that, the first, second or third time it was requested.
Instead he would rather insinuate this and that, hoping I would get tripped up in my amateurish ways.
"It is not up to Dave to provide you with an answer or a sim to prove something about LSES. He is however helping you to sim the thing properly and so guiding you to view a bunch of different, possible conclusions about the data you're looking at."
Yes it is up to him. In previous thread, simpler sims showed the effects are the same, this already has already ruled out the specific amplifier circuitry.
"Slagging off his business approach doesn't seem to me to be good manners for someone helping you. You only have to look at his record to see where he's coming from."
You are pretty naive if you think his intentions were to help me rather then protect the mystic nature of some particular businesses.
Follow Ups:
You are pretty naive if you think his intentions were to help me rather then protect the mystic nature of some particular businesses.
sorry if it makes me such a horrible person to want to see if the claimed cause and effect actually holds together. Plenty of pictures of the effect have been provided but I am still awaiting a good example directly linking it to the cause.
The only way I have been able to get simmed circuits to exhibit squirrelly behavior is to intentionally (or unintentionally) break them... feed a resonant circuit with its resonant frequency or apply some frequency based positive feedback.
Dave
No Dave, I feel your posts intentions were to instill doubt and contention into my little demostration.
The claimed cause is the low induction and capacitance in a power supply. Nothing new here.
Sorry if I am such a horrible person for wanting to see if the claimed cause and effect of the LSES actually holds together.
However you chose to stonewall me despite saying you wanted to play along. You took your simulated ball and went home.
The LSES power supply resonates in the audible region, which was demonstrated previously in a thread, which I think you were involved as well.
That thread also showed the same results with a with a different model, posted by a different member. It was inspiring and exciting to say the least.
The wiggly power supply is the frequency based feedback you are looking for, it's right there in front of you.
I was able to demonstrate, albeit a little exaggerated to make it more visible, something that I have heard over the years.
What's your problem with that?
While one might think they are good in the capacitance department, real world devices are not ideal, which is why one might benefit for a little more L and C then an ideal model shows.
I find the ear is quite sensitive to this compression, small amounts are audible. I find you can hear it at much lower levels then my simulation shows. The simulation was intended to zoom in and get some insight as to what mechanisms make inadequate supplies low fidelity.
Will more L C make all amps sound better? No, only the ones with inadequate power supplies.
Are you guaranteed to like the sound?
No, as has been mentioned before by many, some people may like the sound of a inter-modulation distortion and harmonica bass.
My personal preference or benchmark for a second capacitor in Pi filters is 450uF for ~300v B+, ideally comprised of 3 parallel 150uF caps to lower ESR.
This is suitable for amplifiers in the 1-5 watt range.
Somewhere along the line good engineering practices gives way to economics and now fashion and vanity.
Seems now some people would rather admit to using an undersized film cap but would never want to be seen using 150uF electrolytics. lol.
Function follows form for some.
They say measurements lie and to trust your ears, not to trust engineering.
I would love for them to try build an amplifier using unlabeled components and unknown voltages.
However you chose to stonewall me despite saying you wanted to play along. You took your simulated ball and went home.
stonewall? I simply asked for a legible drawing so a conversation could continue.
dave
"I would love for them to try build an amplifier using unlabeled components and unknown voltages."
I mean what else can you say when LowMu refers to a scope as an "osillyscope". I can back that up with a post if needed.
Now as a youth in the 1970s I too built many audio amps, both tube and solid state without a scope. Reasons were economic. So I've been there too! But since the early 80s I have never built any project without the aid of a scope. And the results are always well worth it.
You seem to have some misguided notion that someone owes you something. Good luck with that.
It's nice to see you sharing your "knowledge" of sims for everyone to see. Carry on.
Holy smokes Stephen R, that is a very delusional view of what actually happened isn't it?
lol
Well no actually.
Look from a previous thread, you seemed to be here for the right reason. Now you're being rude to someone trying to help. Now you're being rude to me. I really now have no idea why I bothered. You've clearly made you mind up already rather than being an enquiring mind; my mistake.
I'm not deluded thanks. But hey, you think what you want.
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