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In Reply to: RE: Different discussion posted by Nickel Core on December 03, 2014 at 12:51:31
"The problem is that people on a budget almost never (can) try boutique parts,"No, the problem is that for every person who does try them and claims they "sound good," another says they sound no better (or maybe even worse). The bottom line is that there's little or no legitimate evidence that any of the mega-buck parts are better than their less-expensive counterparts. That's why more of us don't buy them.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Edits: 12/03/14Follow Ups:
'"No, the problem is that for every person who does try them and claims they "sound good," another says they sound no better (or maybe even worse)."
This is clearly an assumption, so I cannot argue about that.
NC
I've read dozens of accounts through the years from people who said the boutique caps were terribly unreliable and failed early, and/or they didn't improve the sound. Some even said their upgrade to expensive caps made the sonics worse. Whatever they are, those reports aren't assumptions.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Those reports maybe not, but your statement is.
Which statement is that?EDIT: I see in a different post that English isn't your first language. If you're referring to my statement about the 1:1 ratio (like/dislike), that was a figure of speech. I hadn't meant to say that opinions are exactly 50/50 on this issue.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Edits: 12/03/14
if a consensus of opinions is at all meaningful, I would say that most who have tried them do wax poetic about Dueland caps and Vcaps. Now, you (and I) might also say that such persons who paid for those parts will have a bias toward loving them. I know I would.
Hey Lew,
I can tell you that I've tried many (though not close to all) caps at both extremes and I consider myself definitely not biased on the basis of cost, I just want the best sound.
On balance expensive caps have yielded the best results for me but there are some bargains out there ... and then of course there is that synergy thing with other components or indeed overall balance which can cloud the issue.
I just wish that people would refrain from arguing passionately about something they've not tried before. Those at extreme ends of the scale, strong technical or mystical (sorry, couldn't find a better word) seem to be the greatest antagonists.
A balanced argument, hopefully based on experience is always a healthy one, having the greatest potential to furthering our collective knowledge.
Naz
"such persons who paid for those parts will have a bias toward loving them."
That's actually a cultural sterotype in much of Asia. The more you pay for something, the better it ... (sounds, tastes, fits, works, lasts, looks, moves, etc.) Add that to the desire above all else to save face, and it becomes nearly impossible to believe what anyone says about top shelf items. We're more results-driven in the West, so we hear public complaints about overpriced components that fail to perform.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
None of us is free from observer bias, no matter what the culture and no matter how dispassionate and objective any of us might believe ourselves to be.
That's why the scientific method requires double-blinding and use of controls to validate conclusions. (I didn't want to bring up that old argument about double-blind listening tests; I do see the point of those who hold that such tests are near impossible to conduct when it comes to asking a bunch of audiophiles, "How did it sound?" But in clinical trials that depend on subjective judgement either of the participants or of the persons running the trial, with a goal toward advancing science or medicine, etc, double-blinding is a must.)
"None of us is free from observer bias, no matter what the culture"
We are not in disagreement over any of the points in your post. I was only noting that public complaints regarding the quality of high end products is a much rarer phemomenon in Asia than in the West. In the West, the audience tends to view such complaints as informative. The response in many Asian cultures is more likely to be demeaning, as in, "If it's crap, you were stupid to buy it." That adds one more reason to talk it up, or at least, keep your mouth shut.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
And in our Western culture there is a strain of "if it costs THAT much, it must be a rip-off". I am certainly guilty of that, at times.
I am Curious about Nickel Core's experiences with both the Teflon and Copper V-caps. Positives and negatives of both
He writes:
"I just upgraded from the teflon VCaps to the copper VCaps as coupling cap. Also expensive, until you hear the results.... Then they are a bargain... "
Why not ask NC directly?
My 5C is that the CuTF are even more neutral and open sounding than the already great sounding TFTF. Sure you pay for it but IME these are the best sounding caps of any I've tried including all the Ruskies, Mundorfs, Wondercap, Auricap, Vit Q and I can't even remember how many others.
Naz
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