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In Reply to: RE: You poor man~nT posted by Tre' on August 13, 2014 at 17:18:03
Hi Tre,
The induced magnetisation M is proportional to the applied field times the susceptibility. For a given applied field, the *strength* of the magnetisation is proportional to the absolute value of the susceptibility. M will be parallel to the applied field if the susceptibility is positive, and anti-parallel if it is negative. But the strength of the magnetic polarisation induced by the external field will be proportional to the absolute value of the susceptibility.
Thus silver will have a larger magnitude of induced magnetisation than copper.
If you used your definition, then you would also say that a pure vacuum (susceptibility =0) had a larger induced magnetisation than silver, and by your arithmetic the magnetisation of the vacuum would be -2.6/0 = infinity times bigger than the magnetisation for silver. Even though the vacuum cannot magnetise at all!
You need to take the absolute values here, in order to discuss which material magnetises more than another. And you shouldn't turn the fraction upside down just because the quantities are negative.
This is all really pretty academic, since the susceptibilities in both cases are tiny! I don't for one moment imagine that there will be any observable audible effects in the OP's set-up due to this!
Chris
Follow Ups:
"This is all really pretty academic, since the susceptibilities in both cases are tiny! "
I don't understand this stuff but I assumed that.
I still don't understand this stuff but thanks for trying.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
hey
This is all really pretty academic,
description nicely put from a factual perspective... but then...
since the susceptibilities in both cases are tiny!
I agree the numbers here are insanely small, but unless you have put in the effort to quantify what is audible or inaudible your "tiny" has no connection to the real world.
I don't for one moment imagine that there will be any observable audible effects in the OP's set-up due to this!
so you have formed your opinion and are using opinions of facts to justify it.
I guess I have to ask is how do you draw the line between audible and inaudible changes?
dave
"I guess I have to ask is how do you draw the line between audible and inaudible changes?"
Good question. OK, so we are agreed that silver magnetises more than copper does, by that factor 2.6 that we are probably by now sick of hearing about. But nobody here has yet proposed any mechanism by which this is supposed to be able to affect the signal passing through the wires. I was really waiting earlier to hear somebody's proposal for what effect we were supposed to be discussing. What magnetic fields, for example, are being imagined here as being the relevant ones? The magnetic fields generated by the audio currents flowing in the wires? Stray magnetic fields from nearby power transformers? The earth's magnetic field? And then, how is any of this supposed to affect the passage of the audio signal through the wires? By what mechanism is it supposed to depend on "how magnetic" the wires are?
Since I have no idea what mechanism anybody has in mind, I don't see how one can yet begin to make specific estimates. All I can say is that with these effects, whatever they are, going on in a short piece of wire with about 0.1 ohms resistance, and the audio signal feeding into a high impedance input in the audio amplifier, I just can't see how any conceivable effect, yet to be proposed, is going to be anything other than utterly insignificant.
Chris
BENGHAAAZZZZIIII!
That's why.
-Henry
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