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In Reply to: RE: Summertime Blahs posted by drlowmu on July 19, 2014 at 07:06:20
Jeff, your troll is uninspired and I was planning on ignoring it. But then I started thinking about something I've been meaning to say for a while, and now seems as good a time as any to talk abut it.I know this will horrify some of you, but I have reached the point in my career as an enthusiast of reproduced music (notice, I did not say "audiophile") where I just don't care anymore about "hi-fi." Correction: I do care about "hi-fi" to the extent that when I listen to music I want it to sound clean and clear and realistic. But having owned and/or listened to many audio systems over the years, I honestly feel that most modern equipment is just really, really good, and the differences between them are increasingly irrelevant. The audiophile passion for obsessing over the tiniest details of so-called "sound quality" has ceased to interest me. Audio reviews (I still subscribe to "Stereophile," though I give it probably about ten minutes of attention every month) seem pointless and ridiculous to me. There is nothing of interest left for them to say.
In my opinion, well-designed equipment, solid-state or tube, vinyl or CD, sounds great. The biggest differences are in the speakers, turntables, cartridges, and the room setup. A system either sounds right or it doesn't, and the difference is immediately obvious to me. I find nothing wrong with a good solid-state amplifier, and worrying about "skewed sonics" and other such malarky seems to me to have absolutely nothing to do with music, and only detracts from whatever enjoyment I get from the music.
"Audiophilia nervosa" has no appeal for me.
Some of this, no doubt, has to do with my ongoing musical training. Jeff, you once described yourself here as a "musically sensitive listener." I have been taking serious piano lessons for twelve years now. I'm currently learning Beethoven piano sonata #30, op. 109. One of the most magnificent pieces of music ever composed, IMHO. This is a very challenging piece to play, and it's not just because of the technical difficulties. It's because of the profundity and subtlety of the musical ideas inherent in the piece. The differences between a superb and a mundane performance are easy to hear on even the most modest system. It does not take an esoteric SET/horn system to perceive them.
I defy you, as a "musically sensitive listener," to say one relevant, non-trivial thing about what makes for a musical performance of op. 109, or any other piece of important music, for that matter.
It's become apparent to me that the things audiophiles listen for, by and large, are orthogonal to the business of music. Being an audiophile in the contemporary sense is an interesting hobby (for some), but it is distinct from music appreciation. That's probably why, as the cliche goes, most musicians have crappy audio systems. They are listening for something different.
I have most recently built a handful of solid-state amplifiers, the last of which is really quite nice to my ears. It's currently on loan to my friend, Bryan, who uses it with a pair of Reference 3A MM de Capo speakers. It's a very, very nice system. Due to WAF issues, I don't have the right environment to set up real high-end loudspeakers optimally in my listening room. So I don't really do "serious listening," which saddens me, but it's one of the compromises I've been forced to accept in my life. But I can tell you confidently that for my purposes, that amp and those speakers and my Teres turntable, V15VxMR, and cheap op-amp phono preamp are all that I would ever need to be a very happy audiophile camper. One of these days, after the kids are done with college, I'll move to a new house with a dedicated listening room and set up my modest "dream" system, and that will be the end of it.
Another thing that has really turned me off to "hi-fi" is the proliferation of ever-more-exotic, overbuilt, overpriced boutique components that are obviously intended primarily to extract money from wealthy poseurs than to provide meaningful value or increments of performance. It's a hugely self-serving endeavor, IMHO, and the snake oil and general nonsense have become a huge turn-off to me.
I think hi-fi technology has matured to the point that the high-end as it was, say, back in the eighties, is largely irrelevant. Very nice systems can be had off the shelf for relatively affordable prices. Ninety-nine percent of what I read in hi-end magazines and on high-end forums strikes me as mental masturbation.
There will always be pleasure in the craft of building one's own audio equipment. This is a very legitimate and worthwhile hobby. And the really deep details of audio engineering remain complex and challenging for those who want to dig in that direction.
But the domain of "skewed sonics" and faith-based, golden ear self flagellation means nothing to me. Honestly, it never satisfied me. Call me names and deride me for not being a "real" audiophile. I just don't care. It's just nonsense words to me.
As far as I'm concerned, what you and your tweako ilk talk about is deeply divorced from good sound and from music. It's more of a cult and a mental illness that I am thrilled to have nothing to do with anymore.
-Henry
Edits: 07/19/14Follow Ups:
Quote...
"Another thing that has really turned me off to "hi-fi" is the proliferation of ever-more-exotic, overbuilt, overpriced boutique components that are obviously intended primarily to extract money from wealthy poseurs than to provide meaningful value or increments of performance. It's a hugely self-serving endeavor, IMHO, and the snake oil and general nonsense have become a huge turn-off to me."
.....
LOL!
You mean like the latest proliferation of USB DACS built component per component on the data sheet reference design, all based around a single chip solution to boot!
Ahh, but that gold RCA SPDIF connector makes all the difference doesn't it?
I have had a similar attitude towards the HiFi, High End, Audiophile values system for over a decade, at least. Juxtaposed against this is a recent re-introduction to this way of thinking by virtue of my first amplifier build... and I don't like this type of thinking getting in the way of musical enjoyment!
I suppose it is because the new amp and interconnects expose an uncomfortable level aggressiveness in my source. Which leads to my main point: for me, it is more about what a system does not do, rather than what it does. I can genuinely enjoy music through 'most any system, except those that are overtly edgy - what some generalise as "solid state" or "digital". So, get a system that does not irritate. Enjoy.
From another perspective, ultimately the ability to simply/ purely experience music resides with an individual. None of us are completely musically enlightened, so we will (hopefully) prefer system types that make it easier for us to enjoy music - to get us closer to simply experiencing. However, the audiophillia I sometimes see is a different path - it leads towards a different ideal, where the pleasure (and pain) is in listening to - not through - a system and the analyses that follow.
Yes, this post has some apparent contradictions. Don't we all?
Cheers.
“As long as we have any intention to be right… we should be wary. So long as words have the slightest ego attachment, they are dishonest.” Charlotte Joko Beck
The question I grapple with constantly is whether the thought and effort and resources I invest in my hobbies are taking me in the direction of greater knowledge and enjoyment, or just sending me into a spiral of ever-increasing investment for ever-diminishg returns.
Back in the day, I had fewer bills to pay and a lot more money to blow seeking self-gratification in the form of toys. I was a perfectionist and never satisfied with what I had. I've come to recognize that perfectionism and the inevitable dissatisfaction that follows are a trap, a quirk of neurochemistry more than anything else. This is a trap many audiophiles fall into, I think, and one that the audiophile vendors are more than happy to encourage and feed.
"Perfectionist audio" is an interesting goal to pursue, but I think it's a goal you need to keep sort of off the side of your field of vision. If you fixate directly on it, it will drive you crazy. And in the process, you might lost track of some very important things, like perspective and reality.
I would hate myself if, in pursuit of proficiency in my hobby, I fooled myself into believing I was an "expert" on something when, in fact, I was completely full of shit. Not that I have anyone in particular in mind when I say this, LOL.
What I like about piano performance is that it's so damned difficult that there is absolutely zero danger (for me) of ever getting to the point that I'm driving myself nuts over irrelevant, trifling details. The opportunities for learning and growth in this activity are wide-open. It keeps me humble and the return on investment is high because I'll always be on the steep part of the learning curve.
I also happen to feel, for what it's worth, that studying music directly, rather than just thinking about sound, gets me a lot closer to something that is fundamentally profound and significant about, you know, what it means to be part of human culture. This is important to me, living at a time when the culture I live in seems to be going in the toilet.
As far as audio design goes, I've probably forgotten more than I know at this point about electronics. If I wanted to dedicate myself to audio engineering, I could easily find many paths to explore where the learning curve is as steep and rewarding as it is for piano playing. But in terms of just being able to listen to good music on a system I built myself, I mastered that a long time ago.
Someone on this forum once wrote, "What is there besides audio?" Hopefully that person is reading this and knows I'm talking about him. My answer would be, "Just about everything." There are so many interesting challenges out there and opportunities for growth and diversification.
I say, if you find yourself stagnating, doing the same thing and telling the same stories year after year, it's time to move on.
FWIW.
-Henry
I do care very much about sound quality but I've been using the same all-DHT 4P1L PSE amp for 2 years now. All filament bias, Lundahl interstage and OPT, no coupling capacitors or cathode bypasses. Ridiculously simple circuit but complex power supplies. And since I have about 150 4P1Ls which is all I need, I'm pretty much done with collecting stuff and building projects. Might still build a nice DAC one day, that's all.
But I'm also an active musician, and it's the music which lasts beyond the equipment. I love op 109. I like Arrau for the depth of sonority in the slow movement. But I'm more interested in songwriting. May do an online Berklee course. Active music making is great.
'Another thing that has really turned me off to "hi-fi" is the proliferation of ever-more-exotic, overbuilt, overpriced boutique components that are obviously intended primarily to extract money from wealthy poseurs than to provide meaningful value or increments of performance. It's a hugely self-serving endeavor, IMHO, and the snake oil and general nonsense have become a huge turn-off to me'
Dueland Cast capacitors spring to mind
Al
nt.
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Freak out...Far out...In out....
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