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In Reply to: RE: So to conclude.. posted by griboon on February 02, 2013 at 17:22:30
It is a matter of philosophical perspective how you want to conclude anything, if you conclude anything. Me, I'm not sure about anything these days. I do have my bets based on past results and probability. Probably I will die never hearing the effects of teflon sockets. That's only a guess.
Follow Ups:
Probably I will die never hearing the effects of teflon sockets.
I thought it was really interesting that early on in this thread Gusser specifically called out the unlikely nature that any effect hear was electrical. He said:
The electrical attributes of Teflon are nil at audio frequencies anyway. So the benefit is strictly mechanical.
40 or so posts later the discussion is still on the electrical characteristics of teflon. Why hasn't anyone paid attention to that 800 pound mechanical gorilla in the corner Gusser alluded to?
Tubes tend to be microphonic which means they pick up and amplify vibrations. I like to call it acoustical feedback. Now lets forget whether feedback is good or evil and just accept that it exists. Surely how it is applied (remember it is acoustical feedback) can be altered by the the materials / methods used to couple the tube to the chassis.
dave
There might be a minuscule effect on vibration as I can empirically see that Teflon is better at mechanical damping that ceramic.I completely missed that.
You two guys, Dave and Commentary, do exhibit impressive analysis skills. I sincerely hope both of you put that talent to good use in the real world. Because to spite the fun we are having here, worrying about this level of cause and effect in a tube amp project is rather silly, IMHO.
Edits: 02/03/13
I spoke with my friend, a research psychologist out of Princeton last night. I ask him my toughest questions, and he finally convinced me about the onus of proof about something unproven and that which cannot be unproven (this is where science and religion collide).
If the item cannot be proven over many years, it falls into a default state that nothing yet changes current thinking. Seems obvious to me now. That means all evidence points to all amps sound the same. Science is not involved much in audio at all. It's in this religious state that hasn't been taken seriously to try to be changed by scientists, and for scientists to all agree on.
So, I poke fun at the defects in ABX testing as is and offer a new approach (AAA..AX testing), but no one wants to change that poor discerning old method involving bad human memory. But it would be up to someone to publish a real study showing the evidence has been wrong and that we still can hear different amps apart. No one with true credibility has really taken it up and clearly refuted the old paradigm for sure so we can move on to improve things without that cloud hanging over all high-end amp designers.
So, old school remains valid. Old school ABX remains accepted. Surely, we can do better about this situation, but no one is really going to stake their reputation on it, it simply appears.
That is how I see it, anyway. No need to argue about this too much.
Chances are you will die before that. Is it possible to hear the differences? Yes, but not me. I dont want to, but that is just me. I would choose them such as Yamamoto sockets because they might offer better contact qualities or construction ease. I have seen cracked ceramic sockets because of over-torquing! But I have heard of soft sockets because of over heating. Sound wise to me there is not a pinch of puppy shit between the two. Truth is I miss Cinch sockets they had the bite of a dead snapping turtle!
made by Belton in Micanol are pretty good at biting....
yes and do they sound better than Teflon or Ceramic...hehe???
that may be a different thread than this one...
have fun,
and also thanks for your commentary 'commentary'...
and thanks for your good work Dave Sagle...
-3db
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