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RE: PP or SE outputs

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Naz

A

In Reply to: RE: PP or SE outputs posted by Joe Roberts on September 11, 2012 at 09:38:01

I've spent most of my audio life trying to compare topologies, components and ideas. There are many things that sound better that I cannot explain technically or even through Sims. Of course, all of us have theories to explain what we hear but often they are just that.

I'm certainly not saying that I don't like PP, in fact I still own a few pairs of good PP monos. A good PP tube amp can have most of the magic of SET, with a few other advantages, but for me, the last word in immediacy, realism, holographic 3D sound is still SET. I'm including parallel triode and parafeed in this.

Naz

Follow Ups:

watch the generalizations - Joe Roberts 09:26:51 09/12/12 (2)
In general, I agree with you. However, I have to allow that our shared generalization is just that...a generalization.

We must look at specific cases, otherwise what are we really talking about but the "sound of ideas?"

I would not go so far as to say that all SE amps are better than all PP amps or that all triode amps are better than all pentode amps, even if the speakers and listener preferences are held constant.

I have heard (and built) some amps that really were major let-downs and some that were way better than expected, given what they were and my mental framework of preconceptions.

In general I would agree that a good SE rules on several subjective criteria, but be careful shopping out of a catalog or on
Audiogon on that assertion.

Even more challenging is what we are doing here---comparing amps that have not yet been designed or built yet!

I am a master of propaganda and convincing rhetoric on the level of these generalizations I speak of. I even convince myself sometimes. However I balance that with an insistence on letting my/your ears decide.

For me, the most interesting and valuable thing is when preconceptions are called into question.

In the internet age, the war of words has assumed an even more prominent position, but let's not forget that audio is a practical art with actual music listening systems as the end result. In my experience, experience trounces theory and rhetoric.

------------------------------

Free your mind and your ass will follow -- Parliament/Funkadelic
- Absolutely ... - Naz 05:05:43 09/13/12 (1)
  Hmmm, an absolute generalisation :-)
  
  Over the years I've been almost anal about ensuring that I qualify my posts with "in general" and "all things being equal" etc. Evidentially I've become a little lax and started following the popular trend of abbreviating ... not good!
  
  Of course I'm generalising. I've heard some terrible SETs, mainly commercial. Whenever I've compared anything I've tried as much as possible to keep all else the same.
  
  Naz
  - RE: Absolutely ... - Joe Roberts 12:04:50 09/13/12 (0)
    Guess I am not used to audio forums, which often seem to have more to do with staking out a rhetorical position than any correspondence to on-the-ground reality.
    
    I mean nobody I run into face to face demands that I qualify my subjective opinions with formal double blind tests and submit to them the documents while they sit around and do nothing, know what I am saying? ;op
    
    Of course, we speak in generalities. Preconceptions are necessary for understanding insofar as they orient us in a complex world. Best to view them as hypotheticals though.
    
    The idea is that when experience does not bear out the theory or model, adjust, elaborate, or qualify the model. Don't try to modify reality to fit a good story! This would be completely contrary to what theories and models are for (and we see it on this forum every day).
    
    I've been listening to my DIY Peerless A100A PP, AB2, NFB, indirectly heated triode amps and I would put them up against the lower 75% of SE amps anyday--on the very criteria that SE amps are highly rated on...3-D, color, etc. but it is more dynamic and highly-resolving than most of them.
    
    Nothing I can do or say online to convince a skeptic.
    
    Here's some generalizations I have found very useful--in audio, in academics, and life on the whole:
    
    The really smart people are open-minded and understand that they don't really know that much out of the sum of all there is to know.
    
    The more you know about any given subject the more you realize how little you know. Half-educated people are the worst dogmatists.
    
    ------------------------------
    
    Free your mind and your ass will follow -- Parliament/Funkadelic

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