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Tape Trail

buying a used reel tape deck-help!

64.136.26.226

I sold my Sony TC758 reel deck a while ago, I was never really happy with the sound quality, and after spending a few bucks for repairs, I sold it. I was recently given a Tandberg 3300x(broken knobs-buttons and one channel is weak during playback and the other has distortion) and I don't want to dump $$ into it if I can get something that is in excellant shape that costs less.

So I have narrowed my search to the following decks:

Akai GX365D
Teac X300R
Teac X-10R
Teac 2300S

I have a budget of about $300-$350 for a deck that has been serviced and hopefully would give a few years without major trouble.

Any other suggestions that would be a good deck option would be appreciated.
Tom
Portland, Oregon

Follow Ups:

And then...... - shoeihell@yahoo.com 01:49:45 09/06/08 (0)
Truth is, you've been given some great advice here. Unfortunately, unless you're very resourceful (and extremely lucky), your price point is skewed too low. You can diddle around in ebay and craigslist virtually forever until you find some pristine deck, just serviced for the price range you're talking about-good luck with that. Sometimes, you can find deals like that at estate sales etc. Mostly, that's where 'power sellers' get the junk they tout so highly on ebay as "working perfectly", "pristine deck", "just needs a belt" etc. If only I could believe that their lies would place them in the Circle of Hell someday.....

A more realistic approach would be to settle on some brands like Tascam/Teac, Revox, Otari, Tandberg etc...more towards prosumer than studio pro decks. You can buy cheap and then turn the deck over to a good tech for a full restoration, but you may find in doing that, the heads are horribly worn or the motors nearly shot. Both are expensive propositions added to the restoration costs. These days, more people lie on ebay than tell the truth....or they're just hapless dolts with no brains and/or conscience.

You could also consider buying a deck from someone on a forum like this one who has, in the past, done a full restoration but is now tired of the medium, selling off some of his/her collection, and/or has had some financial changes in life.

If you get to know the ins and outs of R2R's first, you'll be able to stay away from the 'junk cans' and recognize the 'deals' out there. If it were me....I'd look for a deck that's been stored in a closet, (not a damp basement or garage) not fucntioning properly (reason for sticking in the closet in the first place), but has LOW hrs on motors and heads....buy CHEAP and send off for a full restoration. If you're haggling with them on price, remind them of the current cost of restoration (most shops are $90+/hr now) and that there are no "simple" fixes for fully restoring 25+ yr old equipment-everything has to be broken down, re-lubed, aligned and all electronics fully tested. But then we're talking about a finished deck (with purchase cost added in) at about $800-1200-way past your price point, I might add. However, if you really get into R2R and want the best from that medium, you're going to eventually wind up with some nice prosumer deck of this price range anyway.;-) I have a personal weakness for Tandbergs, emphasis on WEAK-ness. The sound on their later decks is undeniably fantastic, but parts are unobtanium and there are like a handful of real ex-Tandberg techs out the still messing with these machines-all of these should be considerations when picking a brand.

So then I ask myself "why" do I have three Tandberg decks and CRAZY is the only word that comes to mind.;-)

Kevin
Nice deck. - Dave Pogue 04:10:30 09/04/08 (0)
Never had one, but I've heard good things about the Pioneers. Enjoy it.
Thanks for the suggestions - manfred88 18:24:27 09/03/08 (1)
I appreciate all who gave advice, I guess if I want something that is really outstanding I will have to up the price range. In the meantime I have found a Pioneer RT707 which has had recent service done and what appears to be a good solid performer. Will get it this next week and hopefully it will be a good machine.
Tom
Portland, Oregon
- Cool.... - powermatic 19:29:53 09/03/08 (0)
  Good choice, especially at your price range. I think you'll really enjoy it. I'm listening to some Rachmaninoff as we speak.
  
  Have sturdy shelving ready to go-as I said, heavy.
  
  I have a theory that because the Pioneer RT-xxx series were produced at the tail end of the consumer RTR experience, many of them saw very little use. Still, they sold a lot of them, if for no other reason than their looks. At their going price, I'm surprised more people don't buy one as an addendum to their high-priced rig. But-good for the rest of us.
  
  Be sure to buy a roll of foil tape to make use of the auto-reverse feature, and report back with your thoughts.
  
  "Dammit..."
What I've learned - grhughes 11:07:13 09/03/08 (0)
The Japanese consumer grade machines (AKAI TEAC) lend to have bronze bushing bearings that wear out quickly. The capstan motor is the first to go. Then the heads, belts, bushings, and snatch latches. The heads for these machines are also getting scarce unless to retrofit them to a replacement head like Nortronics which is also out of business. There is an existing stock of Nortronics heads with Joe Dundovic but as to his stock I'm not sure. The other route is to have heads custom made which is very expensive. The Tandberg Actilinear machines are nice if they have been taken care of as well as the Revox A77 and B77. As well as the Otari MX and the Techniks RS series. Here again I stress, well taken care of! The other route is the pro-Ampex-Scully route. Here there are a lot of parts avalable but the cost of restoring one of these pro machines is very high. You want to know if the machine were ever used in a radio station for production in which case it may be worn out. Good luck! Ray
"A discriminating irreverence is the protector and creator of a democratic society." Mark Twain
RE: buying a used reel tape deck-help! - mcgjohn@yahoo.com 10:25:55 09/03/08 (0)
Tom,
As others have mentioned, most of the decks on your list are all consumer machines that are 28+ years old, and are likely to need some work, unless the former owner maintained them all along which is not too likely.

Why not look for a pro machine from a more recent date, such as a 5050 mk2 or mk3? Also the MTR series of decks go for not a lot of money now on ebay. They are likely to last a lifetime in a home environment.

Or if you really want an Akai or Teac, look for the sellers that rebuild them first, then put them up for sale. There are a few of those on ebay, and they dial the decks in to original factory specs. Granted you are not going to get one for 99 bucks, but you'll likely get a machine that will perform well, and will not cause a ton of fustration due to an intermittant channel or snapped tapes.

John
RE: buying a used reel tape deck-help! - ??? 07:17:46 09/01/08 (0)
I doubt you're going to get what you want for what you want to pay. Miracles do occasionally happen, but more than likely, you'll get what you DON'T want for what you want to pay.
At that price point, I'd be thinking much less about a particular brand/model and much more to - powermatic 07:07:24 09/01/08 (1)
finding a lightly used/well cared for deck from any major manufacturer. If you are set on one of the four listed, I'd keep my eye glued to all the usual outlets (craigslist, audiogon, ebay, etc.), be very selective of your choice, and be prepared to raise your budget. And remember, these decks are, well, old . Even one that has sat unused since new will be subject to rubber rot and capacitor aging-part of the game.

FWIW, I purchased a Pioneer RT-707 as a companion for my Technics 1500, and I absolutely love it. I use it to play my prerecorded 7" tapes for 'non-critical' listening, and it's just great-autoreverse, user-friendly, sounds surprisingly good, and the thing is built like the proverbial brick shithouse. It's small size belies how heavy the damn thing is, which I for some reason equate with quality-I'm old fashioned that way. Maybe I got lucky, but I've done thing zero to this deck, other than clean and demagnetize the heads, and it works perfectly and it looks like new. It came with the original box so I was (relatively) sure it would arrive intact (it did), and best of all, they are still pretty cheap, much less then the companion RT-909, which handle 10 1/2" reels and 'look cooler'. I paid about 180.00 bucks for mine-that was 6 or 8 months ago, don't know if there's been a spike in prices, but worth a look. There's a steady and constant supply on ebay.

Oh yeah, if you want the factory takeup reel, be sure to buy one with it included. These reels (oddly, but it's the way of ebay) sell for upwards of 100.00 by themselves. Go figure. Inclusion of the factory reel may also be a sign of better care, who knows.

Anyway-good luck.

"Dammit..."
- Sensible advice - TGR 08:42:27 09/01/08 (0)
  Condition is much more important than brand/model. You might try Craigslist for your hometown as there are often decks listed that you can go see. I suspect that many of these, though, aren't worth the $$. I paid $500 for my ReVox A-77 on ebay a few years back and I was fortunate that I got one that had been kept in good shape.
RE: buying a used reel tape deck-help! - niklasthedolphin 04:59:18 09/01/08 (0)
As soon as you tell me where to buy a Bugatti Veyron with Danish licence plates for less than $ 10.000, I will help you finding the best R2R at impossible low prices.

You have to save more money to aim for what you want.

"dolph"
RE: buying a used reel tape deck-help! - harecording 19:12:41 08/31/08 (18)
Why don't you buy something still in production so that you will be able to find parts and service?
- What's in production besides Otari? - TGR 21:42:46 08/31/08 (17)
  And I don't think you can find a decent one for the price point the poster is looking at.
  - RE: What's in production besides Otari? - harecording 22:36:25 08/31/08 (16)
    By the time you buy a deck, invest in relapping heads or replacing heads, rubber parts, aligning/calibrating, servicing, you might as well buy a new deck.
    - Again, WHAT new deck? - Dave Pogue 04:27:23 09/01/08 (15)
      The Otari (only new R-R deck I'm aware of) costs well over $5K. You can buy a lot of relapped heads, rubber parts, etc., etc. for that. If you know of an alternative, please enlighten us.
      - RE: Again, WHAT new deck? - Doc B. 10:23:23 09/01/08 (14)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Again, WHAT new deck? posted by Dave Pogue on September 01, 2008 at 04:27:23
        
        Actually the price is getting closer to $6K these days. A lot of the more often needed replacement parts for the later models are still available from Otari as well. As far as I know the only other current production tape recorder is the Nagra 4.2, which is mono.
        
        RE: Again, WHAT new deck? - niklasthedolphin 12:13:15 09/01/08 (13)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Again, WHAT new deck? posted by Doc B. on September 01, 2008 at 10:23:23
        
        Otari makes R2R in the present.
        
        "dolph"
        
        RE: Again, WHAT new deck? - Doc B. 12:46:10 09/01/08 (12)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Again, WHAT new deck? posted by niklasthedolphin on September 01, 2008 at 12:13:15
        
        Yes, that's what I was talking about. It's about $5800 plus freight for a new MX-5050BIII. They also make the MTR-15 in a playback only version on a custom order basis. FWIW I have met with the marketing and engineering staff at Otari and I have been invited to become a dealer. No one has come to me ready to pay $5800 for a new 5050 yet. The dealer margin is not particularly inspiring, so I have not been actively pursuing sales.
        
        Edits: 09/01/08
        
        RE: Again, WHAT new deck? - harecording 17:19:30 09/02/08 (11)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Again, WHAT new deck? posted by Doc B. on September 01, 2008 at 12:46:10
        
        I know of a shop in OK with NOS Tascam 32s, 38s, etc. There are NOS deck around. You have to look.
        
        RE: Again, WHAT new deck? - Dave Pogue 04:48:19 09/03/08 (10)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Again, WHAT new deck? posted by harecording on September 02, 2008 at 17:19:30
        
        Sure, they show up on Ebay all the time, having spent the last 20-40 years in a closet or basement while their belts turn to goo and their pinch rollers petrify. I'd take a used one that's been in regular service and received periodic maintenance/alignment/adjustment any day.
        
        Edits: 09/03/08
        
        RE: Again, WHAT new deck? - harecording 15:24:04 09/03/08 (9)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Again, WHAT new deck? posted by Dave Pogue on September 03, 2008 at 04:48:19
        
        Yes. But if you buy a NOS from a dealer, you get the warranty.
        
        Okay, tell us where to get one. - Dave Pogue 16:32:31 09/03/08 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Again, WHAT new deck? posted by harecording on September 03, 2008 at 15:24:04
        
        I've spent a fruitless half hour via Google trying to find a dealer who has a new one in stock (typical link attached). I'm not talking about the near $6K Otari, but something from ANYONE else. I focused on Tascam and had zero luck. Where are they?
        Link to "obsolete" Tascam (Open in New Window)
        
        RE: Okay, tell us where to get one. - harecording 19:06:17 09/03/08 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Okay, tell us where to get one. posted by Dave Pogue on September 03, 2008 at 16:32:31
        
        You want to know where the NOS units are that I mentioned? In Tulsa, OK at a contractor's office. They don't put their gear on a website. If you really want to know, email me. They also have had a good supply of tape.
        
        Okay, that's one. - Dave Pogue 19:48:13 09/03/08 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Okay, tell us where to get one. posted by harecording on September 03, 2008 at 19:06:17
        
        Thank you and I hope that anyone who is interested will get in touch with you, though it would be nice to know how much money we're talking about. I already have an Otari MX-5050BII2 which is in tip-top condition after spending about $1K on it altogether. To the best of my knowledge from information here, on Audiogon, on the Yahoo real-to-reel sites and elsewhere, no one except you has noted the availability of brand new (non-Otari) decks except the NOS ones parked in closets for decades by their owners who never got around to using them. If your source is really interested in selling them, I can't help wondering why they don't advertise one or more on Ebay?
        
        RE: Okay, that's one. - harecording 20:17:39 09/03/08 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Okay, that's one. posted by Dave Pogue on September 03, 2008 at 19:48:13
        
        There were new studers sitting in the wharehouse in Nashville when they closed up shop. There are lots of mom and pop music stores across the nation (where I would shop when I was a touring engineer) that have NOS Fostex, Tascam, etc. You have to talk to people. This stuff won't be on the internet often. You have to look under the rocks.
        
        Otari's are ok machines. There are lots of radio stations that have then in storage. There are a couple of network stations here in KC that have about 8. they were great, but they turned them off to use Acid and ProTools. So, you have to look beyond the lazy methods and dig.
        
        So the would-be buyer has to do 100% of the work. - Dave Pogue 04:07:51 09/04/08 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Okay, that's one. posted by harecording on September 03, 2008 at 20:17:39
        
        Think about it. Not going to happen, when there are eager sellers on Ebay and Audiogon. And as to the great warranty protection these folks you suggest (mom and pop stores?) are going to provide, think about that too. For someone looking for that first tape deck, what you're recommending is simply not an option. And with all due respect, you're not providing a ton of info -- e.g., your first sentence: whose warehouse, what price range, and whom do you contact? And seeking out and buying a radio station's used (and potentially beat-up) Otari is better, how, than buying one of the many advertised on Ebay?
        
        RE: So the would-be buyer has to do 100% of the work. - harecording 14:05:53 09/04/08 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: So the would-be buyer has to do 100% of the work. posted by Dave Pogue on September 04, 2008 at 04:07:51
        
        You assume the worst. Your attitude sucks.
        
        Not all radio station machines are beat up. You know what happens when you ASSume. These machines that I know of here in KC are prestine, because the guy that maintained them was a class act engineer. He loves analog and gear in general, and he preserved them. So, make your generalities, but bash me for not being specific enough. Sweet.
        
        There are people that find true gems by doing work, not by hunting Ebay. I know too many stories and have too much personal experience. Ebay is full of fraud too. Audiogon is inflated.
        
        I know people that go to foreign countries and buy NOS tubes, used mics, preamps, etc, etc. They find things in the oddest places. Churches, schools, etc. You just have to do some work. I know. Work is not popular anymore. But you get what you put into life don't you?
        
        Who is he, for Pete's sake? - Dave Pogue 14:38:15 09/04/08 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: So the would-be buyer has to do 100% of the work. posted by harecording on September 04, 2008 at 14:05:53
        
        Let's see, all this started when you suggested that would-be R-R fans buy new decks (non-Otari) that were out there somewhere because the buyer could thus get a real warranty and not have to worry about encountering some sad-sack situation on Ebay. Fine. I thought this made sense, and since I've helped my share of folks find and decide upon what tape decks to buy, it sounded like a good resource for the people here. So I'm the bad-attitude guy for trying to get some real information presented for inmates to take advantage of. Now you're off on some tangent about a class act selling ... what exactly? Certainly doesn't sound like new gear with a manufacturer's warranty. But who the hell knows?
        
        I do know, by the way, that not all radio station machines are beat up. I probably bought one.
        
        Last post on this thread for me.
        
        But you get what you put into life don't you? - Slick 06:11:01 09/05/08 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Who is he, for Pete's sake? posted by Dave Pogue on September 04, 2008 at 14:38:15
        
        Wow,
        
        Don't know who harecording is, but sure do know Dave Pogue.
        
        If one gets out of life what one puts into it, then Dave has put in a tremendous amount, for what he gets out and gives to others is fantastic. A mentor who's helped me tremendously in the few years I've known him, you'll never meet a finer gentleman, nor one more willing to help friends and casual acquaintances alike.
        
        Slick
        
        "My God, it's full of stars"
        
        Me too! Dave Pogue is my idol!! - joeljoel1947 12:38:01 09/05/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: But you get what you put into life don't you? posted by Slick on September 05, 2008 at 06:11:01
        
        Hi Dave, nice thread! ;)
        Regards,
        Joel

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