|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
Hello all, I received an old pair of KEF 104 (Ref. 1038). They replace a pair of Wharfedale Delta 30.2. I was quiet surprised by the quality of such old speakers (They are coupled with a Nakamichi RE-2 receiver and a Denon CD player DCD 835). Since I got those, I enjoy more and more listening to my music (from Jazz to Rock).
I read somewhere in those pages that it was possible to upgrade the crossovers so that the speaker becomes a 104aB. What is it going to change? Is it still possible since it’s a pretty old speaker…how much would that cost? Is it worth to do that? Or should I invest in a new pair? I must say I haven’t found significant improvements with 500-1000 USD speakers. But I’m not an audiophile…also somebody told me that I’ d probably need to change the amp. Any suggestion (500-1000 USD)?
Many thanksOlivier
Follow Ups:
The parts needed to change to AB's are no longer available from Kef,however the parts needed can be bought from many sources and you can assemble them yourself.If you need a schematic for the change e-mail me and I can tell you what's needed.No changes are made to the B200 crossover,just the T27.The difference between the two is not subtle and fairly easy to do.
Hi,I've been using a pair of KEF 104 aB speakers since 1980 and they still sound good. With a decent source and good amplification, you will be astounded at what these speakers can do. They are a classic and they provide great sound and fatigue-free listening which can keep the upgrade bug away for a very long time.
Mine were the aB model when I bought them but I know that KEF did offer an upgrade kit or service at that time. You could try emailing them to see what they can offer. The change was to the crossover - I don't think they touched the drivers - and if they no longer offer kits they may be able to provide circuit and part information so that you can do it yourself or get someone to do it for you. I believe the aB model was regarded as a noticeable improvement on the original so if you like them now, you should like them more if you can get the upgrade done one way or another.
David Aiken
Thanks David, I will check with the local dealer. Any recommendation in term of ampification upgrade ? I was thinking of Audio Analogue Puccini,Arcam brand(8R)... or maybe they are worth better amplification than that?Olivier
I'd get as good an amp as you can within reason - they'll reveal a lot more than you think. I'm using an Australian made ME 240 integrated which is very clean and I've run them with Haflers and with NAD. They are capable of revealing quite subtle differences in gear so try a few amps out and get a feel for them before making a final choice.David Aiken
I purchased the 104 new about 1980 I think ! Some years later I made the AB modification - the crossover units are simply swapped for the new units - some soldering and it's done. The AB unit has a fuse (for tweeter protection if I remember correctly) - and this is reassuring though annoying to some purists. I felt happier to drive the LS with my QUAD 405 delimited (100 w rated) - though still with caution. The original 104 I felt had a rather bright upper midrange and the AB mod helped a lot. Some time later I discovered the joys of the QUAD ESL57 - but that's another story. The KEFS however, live on and wait for me to fabricate replacement grills - the originals having turned to dust! ........... cheers. BTW you might eventually turn up the x-overs on Ebay - I have seen some older L/S being 'broken up'
Whether the upgrade to 104aB is an improvement is a debatable point. A capacitor in one of the crossovers blew, damaging though not blowing the tweeter, which had some scratchiness due to varnish (?) bubbling on the voice coil, so in the late 1980s, I opted to get the new 104aB crossover. Obviously, I was unable to make a direct comparison, since I was on travel status on a project and had not heard my system for weeks, but my impression was that the 104aB was not quite as smooth on choral music, although it still was a very fine speaker.With the old Kef 104s, I used to keep the midrange control in the minus position, whereas with the newer crossover, I found I preferred the plus position. When Richard C. Heyser reviewed the 104aB for Audio magazine in Dec. 1979, he found the plus position gave the flattest response.
The foam grille certainly helped the sound as it prevented cabinet reflections off that attractive raised ridge around the front of the speakers. But they do deteriorate after 10 years or so, and I understand replacements are expensive. If any other grille is used, I would suggest any replacement include some padding to prevent the sound to the sides from bouncing off that raised ridge.
As for amplifiers, I ran mine off my Quad 606 for a while with no problems, until I happened to come across a pair of used Quad ESL-63s, which I think are better. However, the Kef 104aBs did not sound bad in A-B comparisons, although not quite as smooth. Sonically, they stand up very well even today.
____________________________________________________________
"Nature loves to hide."
---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright)
Thanks for the last one - one of your comments is salient : " I *think* they [ESL63s] are better [than the 104ABs]"well, yes ! These l/s are all in the big league and it's interesting how a costly (at the time) 104 can stand so well in comparison to a very costly gold standard electrostatic !
Recently my upgrade path took me from ESL57 to Heybrook Sextet - the latter are superlative l/s - after a few weeks, though, I realised that I had purchased another ESL57 (albeit with more wellie) - the sound is so comparable in quality with the electrostatics !
To the originator of this thread > keep those 104s they will stand the test of time !
It is interesting you mention the original Quad ESL. Back in 1976, I chose the Kef 104 over it because I thought the Kef was a better all round speaker. The old Quads certainly impressed me on piano, but the Kefs were not far behind.
____________________________________________________________
"Nature loves to hide."
---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright)
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: