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Hi all,
As a friend of mine came by with a pair of Scansonic MB-1s under his arm last Friday, I came away very very very impressed, so much so that I began reaching everything I'd find on them and their brother company " Raidho " were it appears both are mentioned everywhere besides here. Audio Shark, where I'm to assume more music lovers here have deeper pockets then most, tend to talk about them endlessly.
Same goes with the ELAC makes other then the entry level stuff, in which was designed by Andrew Jones, most notably their MB 430 and MB 312 models, which I've found offer sonics that most would find outstanding.
Could this have more to do with the buy American or British mindset?, as I for one tend to think that speakers like those from these companies as well as Tidal ( crazy money might you ) and Canton offer very very nice speakers, which I'd assume are to honest by nature to be taken into account, as I believe some are more into speakers with a more warmish or refined coloration as far as presentation goes. And very seldom wish to heard components or speakers which to clearly show one is trying to get away with playing records from the dollar bin, or doesn't know how to maintain the record collection, nor take care of replacing their stylus between their average 1.000 - 2.000 hour lifespans.
Me myself, I can appreciate the accuracy and honesty of gear that tells me each recording ( label wise ) has different sonics, as well as different levels as far as playback where one has to adjust the volume accordingly, yet shouldn't this be expected if one seeks a sense of better resolution and | or transparency?, or I missing something?.
In my mind due to the development of the Internet, shouldn't our taste towards fidelity then be more global then it is?, after all having worked in the audio retail field as a buyer, it seems that more often then not, many imports have in reality made it into many customers homes since the early 50s, and can compete with domestic items on many levels, and for far less coin........., granted many American components are overly built as to be all about mass or size, and even power for that matter.
Why should anyone seriously amongst us music lovers, allow any given speaker the right to tell us it wants to be driven by an amp capable of producing over 200 - 600 w|pc?, as most countries are more then content using amplification ranging between 3.5 | 20 - 70 w|pc max to drive most speakers built to fit their ears and rooms, I believe that the High-End is made for the 1-2 % of the wealthy, as well as built upon many of these designers past glories, or reputations, in reality many are buying for status or approval of others like themselves, where owning speakers and amps the size of ones garage doors is consider the shite, and anything less is looked down upon........., please give me a freaking break........., excuse my venting on and on about said matters, but it saddens me to see should limited means of those seeking diversity in their audio components be so behind the times, as it relates to what's out there that plays notes much much better then what many of us to blind to think outside the box, will ever know.
Guys | Dolls........, there's a world full of stuff that fits our ears | homes with better fidelity, and it has always been a click away, in that sense it merely makes me wonder just how many of us buy because of global biases?, and don't care to know what's what, when it comes to ones component choices.
Just food for thought......., and before it starts, no haters need respond.
Follow Ups:
Well All,
I merely wanted to post a follow upon this post, as well as the one related to pursuing cables. As I've ran my options by several friends whom have heard my current system, as well as a few more of them whom I've known for years whom merely have great taste, and consensus were it would be very very difficult for me to upset my current Totem The One or their original Model Ones.
Logically speaking......., I can say in all honesty this might prove to be a lateral move at best, as taking the time to research the slight differences as they relate to specs or measurements between all three actually doesn't differ in so much a the ELAC uses more currently designed drivers and would if anything offer me a different sonic signature......., which in turn means would it be then worth sending upwards of $3.000 for only slight differences as opposed to what I've come to love about both pairs of Totem's?, I think not.
As it has taken me all of 4 years to feel as if I've honestly stumbled upon a very very well balanced signature from each component after having spent time paying attention to the little details which have seemingly bought it all together in a more synergistic manner where I'm beginning to believe it has been voiced to suit my preferences sonically, as well as in my surroundings at a point where I'm very reluctant to change one item outta of fear of throwing this particular balancing act out of whack.
As a friend of mine from the Hong Kong Tube Audio site asked me several years ago when it comes to system building........, when do we as music lovers find good enough as just that?, as opposed to the constant pursuit of perfection in chasing component after component after component just for the sake of slightly different sonics, which are times are heard | felt as vast improvements, just said slight differences in tonal shadings.
At some point........, logic has to kick in. As I'd imagine many of us have found ourselves trying to go back to a time where we had a very very satisfying system, only to have found ourselves throwing funds at more expensive pieces only to find we had lost a sense of magic or intimacy along the way, which took us years to recapture that exact time in space where we were truthfully content, yet didn't know it at the time........, well lets just say my time has arrived........, and I'm going to pay attention to what my ears | senses and heart tells me sounds | feels right......., for me and isn't that what growth is all about?.
Thanks again for those of you whom were kind enough to add insight on this matter......., but in the end, reality kicked in......, and says leave well enough along. And I for one have to listen to what my senses are saying aloud, as waste isn't an option when one should know they're happy with what they've, as well as themselves.
Happier New Year, and Long Life's to us all.
O_o scar
Well All,
I merely wanted to post a follow upon this post, as well as the one related to pursuing cables. As I've ran my options by several friends whom have heard my current system, as well as a few more of them whom I've known for years whom merely have great taste, and consensus were it would be very very difficult for me to upset my current Totem The One or their original Model Ones.
Logically speaking......., I can say in all honesty this might prove to be a lateral move at best, as taking the time to research the slight differences as they relate to specs or measurements between all three actually doesn't differ in so much a the ELAC uses more currently designed drivers and would if anything offer me a different sonic signature......., which in turn means would it be then worth sending upwards of $3.000 for only slight differences as opposed to what I've come to love about both pairs of Totem's?, I think not.
As it has taken me all of 4 years to feel as if I've honestly stumbled upon a very very well balanced signature from each component after having spent time paying attention to the little details which have seemingly bought it all together in a more synergistic manner where I'm beginning to believe it has been voiced to suit my preferences sonically, as well as in my surroundings at a point where I'm very reluctant to change one item outta of fear of throwing this particular balancing act out of whack.
As a friend of mine from the Hong Kong Tube Audio site asked me several years ago when it comes to system building........, when do we as music lovers find good enough as just that?, as opposed to the constant pursuit of perfection in chasing component after component after component just for the sake of slightly different sonics, which are times are heard | felt as vast improvements, just said slight differences in tonal shadings.
At some point........, logic has to kick in. As I'd imagine many of us have found ourselves trying to go back to a time where we had a very very satisfying system, only to have found ourselves throwing funds at more expensive pieces only to find we had lost a sense of magic or intimacy along the way, which took us years to recapture that exact time in space where we were truthfully content, yet didn't know it at the time........, well lets just say my time has arrived........, and I'm going to pay attention to what my ears | senses and heart tells me sounds | feels right......., for me and isn't that what growth is all about?.
Thanks again for those of you whom were kind enough to add insight on this matter......., but in the end, reality kicked in......, and says leave well enough along. And I for one have to listen to what my senses are saying aloud, as waste isn't an option when one should know they're happy with what they've, as well as themselves.
Happier New Year, and Long Life's to us all.
O_o scar
Well All,
I merely wanted to post a follow upon this post, as well as the one related to pursuing cables. As I've ran my options by several friends whom have heard my current system, as well as a few more of them whom I've known for years whom merely have great taste, and consensus were it would be very very difficult for me to upset my current Totem The One or their original Model Ones.
Logically speaking......., I can say in all honesty this might prove to be a lateral move at best, as taking the time to research the slight differences as they relate to specs or measurements between all three actually doesn't differ in so much a the ELAC uses more currently designed drivers and would if anything offer me a different sonic signature......., which in turn means would it be then worth sending upwards of $3.000 for only slight differences as opposed to what I've come to love about both pairs of Totem's?, I think not.
As it has taken me all of 4 years to feel as if I've honestly stumbled upon a very very well balanced signature from each component after having spent time paying attention to the little details which have seemingly bought it all together in a more synergistic manner where I'm beginning to believe it has been voiced to suit my preferences sonically, as well as in my surroundings at a point where I'm very reluctant to change one item outta of fear of throwing this particular balancing act out of whack.
As a friend of mine from the Hong Kong Tube Audio site asked me several years ago when it comes to system building........, when do we as music lovers find good enough as just that?, as opposed to the constant pursuit of perfection in chasing component after component after component just for the sake of slightly different sonics, which are times are heard | felt as vast improvements, just said slight differences in tonal shadings.
At some point........, logic has to kick in. As I'd imagine many of us have found ourselves trying to go back to a time where we had a very very satisfying system, only to have found ourselves throwing funds at more expensive pieces only to find we had lost a sense of magic or intimacy along the way, which took us years to recapture that exact time in space where we were truthfully content, yet didn't know it at the time........, well lets just say my time has arrived........, and I'm going to pay attention to what my ears | senses and heart tells me sounds | feels right......., for me and isn't that what growth is all about?.
Thanks again for those of you whom were kind enough to add insight on this matter......., but in the end, reality kicked in......, and says leave well enough along. And I for one have to listen to what my senses are saying aloud, as waste isn't an option when one should know they're happy with what they've, as well as themselves.
Happier New Year, and Long Life's to us all.
O_o scar
Well All,
I merely wanted to post a follow upon this post, as well as the one related to pursuing cables. As I've ran my options by several friends whom have heard my current system, as well as a few more of them whom I've known for years whom merely have great taste, and consensus were it would be very very difficult for me to upset my current Totem The One or their original Model Ones.
Logically speaking......., I can say in all honesty this might prove to be a lateral move at best, as taking the time to research the slight differences as they relate to specs or measurements between all three actually doesn't differ in so much a the ELAC uses more currently designed drivers and would if anything offer me a different sonic signature......., which in turn means would it be then worth sending upwards of $3.000 for only slight differences as opposed to what I've come to love about both pairs of Totem's?, I think not.
As it has taken me all of 4 years to feel as if I've honestly stumbled upon a very very well balanced signature from each component after having spent time paying attention to the little details which have seemingly bought it all together in a more synergistic manner where I'm beginning to believe it has been voiced to suit my preferences sonically, as well as in my surroundings at a point where I'm very reluctant to change one item outta of fear of throwing this particular balancing act out of whack.
As a friend of mine from the Hong Kong Tube Audio site asked me several years ago when it comes to system building........, when do we as music lovers find good enough as just that?, as opposed to the constant pursuit of perfection in chasing component after component after component just for the sake of slightly different sonics, which are times are heard | felt as vast improvements, just said slight differences in tonal shadings.
At some point........, logic has to kick in. As I'd imagine many of us have found ourselves trying to go back to a time where we had a very very satisfying system, only to have found ourselves throwing funds at more expensive pieces only to find we had lost a sense of magic or intimacy along the way, which took us years to recapture that exact time in space where we were truthfully content, yet didn't know it at the time........, well lets just say my time has arrived........, and I'm going to pay attention to what my ears | senses and heart tells me sounds | feels right......., for me and isn't that what growth is all about?.
Thanks again for those of you whom were kind enough to add insight on this matter......., but in the end, reality kicked in......, and says leave well enough along. And I for one have to listen to what my senses are saying aloud, as waste isn't an option when one should know they're happy with what they've, as well as themselves.
Happier New Year, and Long Life's to us all.
O_o scar
Did a search for elac speakers on this forum.
Found total of 411 records
does not support what you are saying
Alan
I just did a search for the models mentioned, and found a total of 3 listings. If nothing else I can read......
A search for elac speakers on just the speakers forum yields 200 posts. I do not know what you are talking about
Alan
Alan......., my post specifically mentions two models, I'm not concerned with the cheaper entry level ones, had I wanted to know about their $300 - $600 offerings, I wouldn't have looked here, but instead places like Best Buy | Music Direct | Crutchfield or even Cnet.
So let's allow this one to go........., it's cool, no!.
Sorry
That was my misunderstanding
Alan
Alan.
It's fine, as I've learned a great deal from you in regards to CA, I know your heart, as well as your intentions.
Seasons Greetings young man.
Maybe we are not that interested in some expensive German speakers. But we like Andrew Jones designed Elacs.
Bill
Understandable, having just looked over a few of your post, I can see why " you " wouldn't be interested.
But in a free world, there might've just been a few amongst the members here, whom might want to hear something other then cheap speakers........, but the reality of it is, we all have to start somewhere, yet realize at some point we also have to evolve, and granted no amount of money can say more costlier items are better......., far from it.
It's the effort one takes in assembling a well matched system, based upon synergy, lest that's not important either.
In the end......., how does that olde saying go?, " to each his | her own ". Once again understood more then you'll ever know.
My quest for reasonably priced speakers doesnt mean I dont listen to costlier speakers. And some of the 'cheap' speakers i have owned are Rogers LS3/5A, Advent large, AR 3, KLH 6 and some of my favorite speakers are the Shahananians, Joseph Audio, GE Tritons and Harbeth Compact 7. I also consider my Tivoli radio's sound to be wonderful. Elac B5 and B6 are OK.
I notice that you call yourself el after Elac?
Cheers
Bill
Good morning Bill,
Much like you, I came to this hobby back in 1984, after returning from being stationed in Japan with a pair of Rogers LS 3|5As driven by a Sugden A21a, and have owned plenty of mini-monitors along the way, that all began their roots as $600|pr mini's, namely ProAc Tablettes | Linn Kans | Chartwell LS 3|5As | System Audio, as well as a few other.
Of late, I'm looking at mini's between the $2.400 - $4.000 price ranges, where the ones listed in this post merely caught my ear, and I merely felt the need to inquiry about them, or their lack of post therein. You've obviously owned some beautiful speakers, so no knocks there.
And my username derived from my introduction to tubes back in 1988, where my first amp was a Dynaco Stereo 70, in which it came with Mullard EL34s, which I later replaced with ones made by Electro Harmonics, as I've continued to use this as my username in one form or another on different forums, where it has evolved to Ei6ca7 | KT77 | RFT|Siemens EL34, as well as a few other varieties.
But these days......., I'm much more taken with the other all fidelity of the EL84s, as far as power tubes go, but felt it to late to go back to the various forums and rename myself, as many of my postings go back to 1999, go I've just ridden it out and continue to use it to this day.
Cheers, and Happy Holidays as well.
O_o scar
I see you started with the EL34 and KT-77 based amps - nice. Don't give up on them just yet. Something you should try is the VTA ST-70 or retro fit your 70 to take KT-88. Get the Gold Lion brand - a wow tube!!!
What EL84 amp are you using. The crown jewel of my stereo collection is, and you're going to laugh, a circa 1959 Sherwood S-5000ii with EL84s. So far the best "sounding" stereo I've ever had or heard for small room use.
Hello airtime,
I haven't given up on using my EL34 based Integrated [ AudioMat Arpege 10 Reference ] which was something I've craved since reading about the original version during the mid to late 90s in a few of the then Listener magazines.
But I've to say that upon receiving the " Woodham Audio Kalyspo by CR Developments " which was one of their ranges geared towards the Japanese market, it was my first venture with anything using EL84s, and within minutes........., I began to understand what Pierre Sprey over on Mapleshare Recordings had been getting at all along in how responsive to dynamic shifts were possible blue from these power tubes compared to larger ( slower, more rose-tinted ones to my ears since ) in he went on and on about the H. H. Scott Integrated ( I've forgotten the model number ) but my integrated caused me to place the other one in the closet where it sat for two years, until I loaned it to my younger brother.
Having had mods done on it back in 2013, by our own Michael Samra, whom did an excellent job far exceeding anything I'd have excepted, I came away even more impressed.........., but I should add Mickey has a collection of vintage tube gear and tubes which caused me to take notice of said vintage gear tenfold and then some......., as he was always trying to get me into obtaining one of these vintage pieces months beforehand, but as the saying goes......., hearing is believing, and what I heard that very day has remained with me since.
Here I'm talking the sonic merits of his Fisher Preamp driving some Eico Power Amp......., don't ask me the model numbers, as I didn't pay attention at the time to anything other then how both connected to my senses on an emotional level.
Once again, each of us while having our biases towards this or that component, according to cost or its place of origin, sometimes need to explore the unknown before knocking items one has never heard........., as one might be surprised as to what's out there for pennies on the dollar, as compared to what we know as the High-End.
Me myself........., I base my purchases on how components present tonality | timbre | pitch | texture, and lastly transient agility. And lastly its ability to touch me emotionally goes without saying.
Happy Holidays airtime........, it's always nice hearing from you.
O_oh
Edits: 11/22/16 11/22/16
I don't think it has much to do with specific national preferences. Except for computer audio, there is not a lot of discussion of new products here compared to other sites, especially when it comes to speakers. Most of the posting activity can be found in Vinyl, Tubes, Tube DIY, Music. Also, I find the crowd here to be (on average) older and more set in their ways and systems, so less upgrading going on. Computer audio being the exception.
I've been over to Audio Shark a few times, and my first impression is that it is a good home for gear flippers with deep pockets. Nice people over there, but living in a different market segment than I am.
I've never heard the Elac models with ribbon tweets. I've heard Raidho several times and their tweeter has outstanding resolution without listening fatigue. Possibly the best tweeter out there. Unfortunately, I don't like how the designer shapes the frequency response of his speakers. He intentionally places a dip at the crossover point, tilts up the treble a bit, and tunes the port to give a mid-bass peak. The C1.1 and D1 standmounts sounded enjoyable in show demos, but the bass was out of control in the larger floorstanding D3 and C4.1 that I heard. I'm more a fan of flatter response, e.g. Magico, Dynaudio, KEF.
> > I'm more a fan of flatter response, e.g. Magico, Dynaudio, KEF.I find your comment rather ironic and can only assume you mean on-axis response.
It's not apparent to many audiophiles that off-axis response in a room plays a large(r) role in what you ultimately hear on-axis.
Edits: 11/22/16
Mike,
So far, my ears tell me that the ideal loudspeaker frequency response FOR ME has the following characteristics:
1) Relatively wide dispersion throughout the frequency range, for best soundstaging/imaging
2) A horizontally flat on-axis response for the most realistic "direct" sound on good recordings
2) A flat but downward tilted off-axis response family, where the tilt increases with angle, without any significant discontinuities in the handover from one driver to the other, such that I can fine tune the tilt of the power response via toe-in.
I want the in-room response at the listening position in my room to be smooth and gently declining. A rough target is 6 dB drop across the full range, and then I can tweak from there.
The KEF Reference series probably comes closest to my ideal. The Reference 1 is faultless with good recordings, but seems a little bit analytical with lesser recordings. I should own it, but it needs the perfect amp to drive it, one that has the power & control the Reference needs but without sounding analytical. So far, I've found the Dynaudio Confidence and Magico S series to be nearly as ideal as the KEF Reference. My Dynaudio C2s would be perfect if only they had more clarity. The Magico S1s could use more dynamics. The S3 fixes that, but doesn't image as well and is out of my price range. Both the Dynaudios and Magicos seem easier to partner. There may be other brands and speakers out there which I would like more, but these are the best I've tried.
My experience is contrary: at most of the 'speaker fora I visit the importance of power response is discussed frequently and largely accepted as a requisite for a fine sounding system.
Go figure.
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
I'm glad you get it. It's pretty easy to build a box speaker with ruler-flat frequency response on-axis. The problem, of course, is that drivers mounted in a box will never have uniform power response no matter how flat the on-axis response is. Some horn loaded systems can mitigate this problem for at least part of the frequency range. However, one must look beyond box speakers for the real solution.
Dave_K,
I'm in total agreement with you on the fact that I've noticed quite a few gear flippers over there as well. I'm the sort whom like you believes ones a system has been properly voiced to suit the end users preferences, it's best left alone provided nothing is broken. Yet I must admit to looking into various brands of cabling and speakers, merely out of curiosity........, as that " what if? " thing always lingers in the back of my head on what might be possible?.
Like you........, I think I wrote awhile back on hearing the original version of the Magico S1s, and being moved to tears, which is difficult considering the fact that those that know me........, know that I've always been more of a " mini-monitor " type music lover by choice.
But taking your response into account, I do see said patterns as it relates to those here......., yet I'm also the sort by nature, whom likes to know what's out there at any given price range, as it then allows me to offer solid recommendations to friends whom are looking for something different from the norm, at various price points. I guess it's the olde buyer in me, whom never stops researching said items, but once again do trust in my own ears enough to realize my journey is nearing its end.
I merely introduced this post out of curiosity, as it seem many aren't willing to travel to shows or shops and then relate their finds to others which might strike someone's interest........., yet in the end, much like kicking tires, I enjoy seeing how others think, or hear.
Thanks for chiming in, as we never stop learning........, it's always nice to hear others perceptiveness on said matters.
Season Greetings to you and your.
O_o scar
Saw your picture of the TQ Black.
The TQ importer (Fidelis) is local to me. I auditioned the Black. It was well balanced but nothing really special. In the same price class I like Kimber 4TC better. TQ Black sounds slightly dull in comparison. I also auditioned the Ultra Black. Now that was a speaker cable! The Ultra Black was clear and seemed to have all the resolution of a silver cable or Nordost but without the emphasis on treble detail that you get with those cables. It was just natural, and had a black background separating instruments. A really good cable but just a bit too expensive for me at ~$2k for a 3m pair, and with an unwieldy geometry that I was worried about being a trip hazard. I also tried the TQ Silver and that was like the Black but thinner in the bass.
I did buy their Black power cable for my amp and Blue power cable for my source. They were enough of an upgrade to be worth the cost.
Hello Dave_K,
Thanks for the heads up on this brand. But as I'm going after said pair of ELAC BS 403s, it was actually a pair of the Tellirium Q Ultra Blue SCs that I heard during a demo on YouTube that caught my attention, as for some logical reason there seemed to be a better synergy between the two.
As heard during this video, at around the 28:48 time frame, or thereabouts?, and I'd ask that you listen carefully, and not be to offensive if this type of presentation isn't your own?, and do take into account while the fidelity here isn't all that, it's enough to give one a feel of what's offered sonically through both:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5OyMyGv560
But maybe in the end........, my ears aren't what they once where........, in which case it's subjective as always.
Even if your ears wer perfect (Golden) what you like would still be subjective. This whole hobby is subjective
Alan
Indeed........., no truer words could've been spoken, in how one hears what they want from their system is subjective in itself. There aren't any rights or wrongs......., just what the end user decides moves them should be enough.
Sometime it just has to be pointed out. That is what these posting groups ARE about - bringing something worth noticing to our attention.
Very interesting. I look forward to reading more about these speakers.
thanks
charles
Valid point Charles.
But I'd think there are times where those that get out to visit shops, ot some of these shows would actually play attention to said threads in the industry, as a few friends of mine generally report how bad certain brands ( mostly overly priced ) sound versus others, but all to often as I do tend to look at people's systems listed here, many but domestic items, when in fact one could do better in some cases for much much less.
I've come to a few realizations from all of this............, I'm definitely the sort whom prefers ribbon or metal dome tweeters ( provided both are done correctly, I should add ) as a jazz purist of sort, there's to much information going on with these sorts of drivers, where I now feel soft domed versions " to my ears " gloss over, and in many ways it's something in which I've only heard while listening to designs like Martin-Logan | Magneplanar | SoundLab | Quad | InnerSound | Apogee | Final Labs........, yes there's a pattern developing here as well.
But it's one that I've grown accustomed to, and there's no going back........., let's see where this goes?, as I'm curious if others are willing to share their opinions on said matter?.
It can be rewarding to develop an awareness of one's own opinions and realise that is all it is: a belief/ opinion (and associated expectations and response strategies)...I don't like systems that present music with the "reproduced" quality assumed to be "accurate" or perhaps "analytical" by some. I don't find it rewarding to listen to production values in the way some audiophiles do. That's my preference though - not something I expect from others.
Okay, back on topic.
Cheers,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
Edits: 11/22/16
I prefer aluminum diaphragms for all drivers, not just tweeters. The speakers I now own are the best sounding speakers I've ever owned and some of the best I've ever heard.
Good evening John,
Now we're talking. And I love the setup, as it shows you've paid attention to the little things that some take for granted. Even isolating your Sota from the other components, as well as using dual subwoofers, when some rely upon one.
In this sense........, I feel ya.
Those Audiovector speakers look nice. They seem to be reasonably priced, too. The only way I could afford my Thiel CS3.7's was because I bought them directly from the factory at half price. They were B-stock with a slight scratch on one of the front baffles. I've had them four years and I like them even more today than when I first bought them so they will probably be the last speakers I need to buy.
Best regards,
John Elison
I've to agree John,
In that they're priced nicely for what they do. And speaking of which......, you apparently got a great deal on your speakers as well. Much like someone stated here about not wanting to discuss expensive German speakers as compared to the ones designed by Andrew Jones, when in fact there's a pair of cheap Scansonic's called the M5s ( around $560| pr retail ) that to my ears are what I now recommend as a bare minimum to my kids or associates whom are trying to get into audio at the lower price ranges.
As mentioned, we all have to start somewhere, yet at some point as our wallets become a tad bit thicker........, we should then look for investing in ourselves as it relates to this hobby, and in my mind diversity has always been a good thing.
Kind regards,
O_o scar
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