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Hi all,
So I received my X14As and have them installed in my study. Unfortunately, as my 12'x 12' study is also my wife's study, and the room where we watch movies, I am very limited as to my ability to position the furniture and speakers to achieve good acoustics. I installed corner shelves on the front wall and placed the speakers on them, which I now know is a big no no.
However, I have resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to achieve perfect acoustics in this room. Due to the room's layout and furniture, I can't have my equilateral triangle listening position, and my listening chair must be butted up against the back wall.
I do, however, want to do the best I can. Beginning with my speakers on the shelves in the corners, will placing the foam below (Auralax LENRD Bass Traps, 12-Inch by 12-Inch by 24-Inch) behind them help with boomy bass issues inherent to corner placement?
Follow Ups:
I guess the one on the picture in your post does not do anything below 100Hz.
Something that works quite effectively below 50Hz are far more expensive.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/692486-REG/RPG_Diffusor_Systems_MDXP22WHP151S1_Modex_Type_2_Low.html
http://www.zenproaudio.com/psi-audio-avaa-c20?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=Cj0KEQjw4MK_BRC1n6KTtezikbIBEiQA872hYaAMVUKgcpR8POihCQZ0Kvnpt0Ci2s1qf4ws2ZKpMWwaAh9G8P8HAQ
I have experience with some of the following products with RANGE LIMITER option to increase effectiveness below 50Hz. However, the absorption effect below 80Hz was very little, according to my own measurement.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-244-bass-trap-flexrange-technology/
Hi Dave,
Thank you for the information. I did move the speakers from the corners over the weekend. I installed the brackets (pictured above - very nice and sturdy for $26 on Amazon) about 12" from the corner on the front wall.
So still fairly close to the corners, but no more perfect triangles formed by the bass port and corners. With the speakers mounted in them they are about 6" from the front wall (12" from corner and 6" from rear of speaker to wall). I'll post some pics as the whole configuration looks quite nice.
One last question concerning speaker placement. Unfortunately, I can't place my chair on the green X. Given this, should I orient the speakers to converge on the green X (equilateral triangle)? Or should I have them converge at my ears (imperfect triangle)?
"I can't place my chair on the green X"
Why not?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Tre',
It's the family room, and small. I can't just plop my chair in the middle of the room. Besides, I already tried that. The wife moved it back.
Find a portable folding chair and plop it down on the X when you want to do some serious listening. Remove and store the chair when you're done.
When you're doing casual, easy listening it won't matter that you're not sitting right on center. Go and snuggle on a lopsided couch with your wife.
genungo,
For my serious, late night, six pack, no work the next day listening sessions, I'll move my chair onto the X, and back before bed. For casual listening, I'll just leave the speakers focused on the X. In other words, I'll focus the speakers on the X and leave them be.
,
You'll have two issues. Boomy bass and tweeter dispersion.
Soft cotton socks are the best solution for the bass. :)
As for the dispersion, first do an experiment. Listen to the speakers while very close, like 2' away. Notice the detail, air, ambience that you hear. You'll loose that due to room acoustics.
Next put the speakers and yourself in the normal place. Listen. The difference is room acoustics.
If it's a lot, I'd consider wall panels. Foam kind of sucks, either as bass traps or wall treatment. Contact GIK Acoustics. They also make some panels that can be silk screened with your designs, so you can make it look better.
The thing I'd be least interested in is the corner foam things. I think the socks will suffice.
Best,
Erik
Take your time. Try stuffing/partially stuffing that port.
Try to get that listening chair at least a few inches from the wall.
Try to get the speakers out at least a few inches from the wall.
Even an inch can make a huge difference! (leave that one alone boys)
You're going to have to play around/experiment for what works best in your situation.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
So you are up against a few challenges-
Square rooms tend to have some additional problems because all the parallel surfaces are the same size-
There are some older threads that address standing waves and the bass boom/frequency response bump from the rooms dimensions - the search box is a great help-
There is also the issue of having limited options in placing the speakers limits the ability to affect boundary reactions between the speaker and the wall/floor/ceiling
Treatment can address some of this and may even tame the situation well-
but you could need a lot of treatment...
Happy Listening
The problem is not just the "no-no" corner/shelf placement. The room is also cube-shaped, another "acoustic no-no". In addition, your head is right up against the back wall where all types of reflections and standing waves will be most audible. It's a veritable "no-no" utopia.And those little "bass traps" can't absorb enough sub-100 hz bass to do your room much good. Effective wide-spectrum bass traps are usually quite large. Those dinky ones you have might create some upper-frequency diffraction and absorb a bit of mid/upper bass, but that's about it.
I would go for some electronic EQ. Shelving down the bass output might help a lot. And try hanging some absorptive treatments on the wall behind your head in order to quiet down those nearby reflections. Try all of the above, but don't expect stellar sound in your situation.
Edits: 09/29/16 09/29/16 09/29/16
After you've done what you can with speaker placement and listening position experiment with EQ.
Enjoy for a while. Try some higher sound quality music recordings.
Save for that rhythmic sub. Our budding audiophile.
I'd put a good set of HEADPHONES on the table, as well. Or rather over my EARS.
It's gonna be a lot of trouble and expense to get a near-cubic room to cooperate.
Too much is never enough
Why people choose loudspeakers in such situations is beyond me. A nice pair of headphones (or two) can provide much more satisfying sound for one or two people in a small room.
Comfort is a sticky point in the minds of many people though. People who have not checked out the headphone scene in many years think that headphones are all too uncomfortable. But I think that headphone manufacturers have made strides in both sound quality and comfort over the past decade.
Headphones are the future in a world where living space is becoming a precious commodity.
genungo,
I didn't want headphones. I want a nice sounding system that I can share with my family and guests. Most people think that buying loudspeakers is straight forward like buying a microwave oven. You buy it, bring it home, and plug it in. They don't understand the acoustical aspects - or even know they exist (this was me).
As well, most people with my current configuration would probably be perfectly happy (out of ignorance) and wouldn't give the degraded sound quality a second thought, or even realize that it's degraded. However, I research the hell out of everything, and now understand that my $1600 loudspeakers are not configured for optimal sound. But, I am working on this. I'm confident that there are steps I can take to get much better sound out of the X14As.
First, I need to get the speakers out of the corners. I just ordered some brackets from Amazon and they'll arrive tomorrow. I'll use them to move the speakers farther from the front wall, and out of the corners. They swivel 360 degrees, so I should be able to get the back of the speaker about 18" from the wall.
Also, while the room itself is 12'x 12', it is open to a large entry way and hallway. It's not a 12'x 12' closed bedroom. As well, there are four largish windows in the room that I want to treat with reasonably priced shades that will absorb some of the sound. At the moment they are covered with mini-blinds, which I assume are not doing me any sonic favors.
The floor is carpeted, and then has an additional 8'x 10' very thick shag carpet on top. So, I don't think I'm as bad off as I initially had led everyone to believe.
So, I know that my tweeters should be ear-level while I'm seated. However, can I move the speakers about a foot or so higher than this and angle the speakers down and at my ear without hurting the sound too much? I have young children.
An open-ended room is a whole 'nuther ball o' wax! The outcome of an acoustic equation like this can be hard to predict, you won't know for sure until you try it. Hope for the best.Those brackets seem like a very good idea to me. Freestanding, moveable acoustic panels or even room dividers are another option should the need arise for acoustic barriers near the open side of the room.
Edits: 09/29/16
Hi all,Thanks for all of the suggestions. I really do appreciate the help. So my father-in-law is a long-time audiophile. I'd say he has about $30K+ invested into his system in his dedicated and sound treated listening room - thousands of CDs and vinyl. He stopped by today after work to give my setup a listen, and insisted that I'm dialed in and shouldn't change a thing.
These speakers really got him pumped up. He was excited and said that sound-wise my system isn't far behind his, and that sound only gets maybe 10 to 15% better than mine. Many will likely disagree, but I'm going with it. I guess it's like mountain and street bicycles and reduced weight. After a certain weight, you reach a point of rapidly diminishing returns if you pursue additional weight reduction technologies. Each additional ounce removed from the bike can cost thousands. Dropping that last few pounds can take you from a $2K bike to a $10K+ bike.
He was also very excited about the high quality and selection on Spotify (which he had never heard of). I asked him to name the most obscure band he could think of, and after a minute or so he asked me to search for The Wackers (I didn't say he had taste). I instantly produced their entire collection. He was sold, and explained that it took him years to find what he thought was all of their stuff. Turns out, Spotify has some material by them that he'd forgotten about.
Do you know that if I'm logged into Spotify on my main PC (the one with DAC and speakers), I can also log into the same account concurrently from my iPhone or iPad and control the music selection and volume. My iPad is my Spotify remote, which I can use to control the music from anywhere. No need for wireless speakers or wireless-capable DACs with Spotify. Thought that was very cool and worth sharing. And no I don't work for Spotify - just very impressed.
I still have some experimenting to do. While I very much value my father-in-law's experience and expertise, he does wear a hearing aid in one ear. I also may prefer a different sound than him. So, I'm going to try the speaker brackets tomorrow when they arrive. However, as I type this these speakers are sounding amazing. I'm thinking that the power of suggestion is having its way with me. I installed the speakers in corners with the understanding that this is generally not a good practice, and they subsequently sounded less than impressive to me. My father-in-law comes over and tells me they sound amazing, and now they are sounding pretty damned amazing. Maybe they are starting to break in? I'm going to go get a pair of socks for the bass ports and replay the stuff that didn't sound so good last night.
Thanks again all.
Edits: 09/29/16 09/29/16
It's what matters.
I'm guessing that the speakers will sound even more amazing when they are pulled out from the wall a bit but please let us know.
If that's where they also watch movies and its through the system, headphones aren't going to cut it.
Also, not everyone likes the "headphone effect". I hate it. Its unnatural. To me it sounds like some of the musicians are above the top of my head. Others claim it sounds like some of the musicians are inside their head.
I am not knocking headphones per se, but they are not for everyone.
That's why they developed Binaural, but it never really caught on, and it isn't so hot with speakers.
Jack
Not that headphones cannot be used for movie watching, but if I was in that room I'd probably stick with the TV speakers. For music purposes though, I'd definitely want better sound and I'm not sure that stereo speakers could ever be better than good headphones in that room - not even when you consider all of the supposed drawbacks of headphones.
While it's true that some people will never like headphones no matter how good they get, it is also true that many people are behind the times and simply don't realize how good the best of today's headphone systems have become. Headphones like the stupendous Sennheiser HD800 throw a huge virtual "soundstage" in stereo that, for many listeners, does NOT seem to be tied into the confines of headspace. And virtual multi-channel headphone systems like the Smyth Realiser have surprised even the most diehard fans of 5.1 loudspeaker systems. The times they are a changin'...
All I'm saying is that more people should consider the option of headphones. Some of us never bother to look beyond the confines of yesterday's loudspeaker systems and, in today's world, doing such is a shameful thing.
I recently purchased the GRADO SR80e (latest, whichever that is) and they are perfect for late night listening.
VERY comfortable even after 2 hours.
Some sound leakage doesn't matter.
These are ON EAR not IN or OVER types.
Too much is never enough
One of the things I like most about headphones (besides portability) is that I can lie down and listen.
Enjoy!
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