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In Reply to: RE: "ribbon reproduction of upper midrange lower treble" posted by morricab on August 19, 2016 at 06:16:43
Like I have said many times there is no way you are going to WIN the argument on this - I VASTLY prefer the sound of the AN E or J or K to ANY of the Reference 3a speakers I have heard. And you blabbing on endlessly isn't going to change that!
And as I have said if you do wish to win the argument (sorta) then you bring your favorite Ref 3a two way versus my AN 2 way and we have classical and jazz trained musicians (around 30) and they listen level matched and blind in two identical rooms with level matched at the listening chair with the gear blacked out. Same volume same music played and we just see how many choose the 2 way Ref 3a with BE tweeters and the AN E with their silk domes.
Other than such a test - it's basically opinion. And even if the result was 29-1 either way it would still only tell people what they will likely prefer. Citizen Kane is considered the greatest American Film in History according to the reviewers - but I know plenty of people who don't like it let alone love it.
Follow Ups:
And probably you have chased more people away from AN than attracted them to it. Because, beneath your superficially diplomatic language, you think they are superior to everything else...an arugment you are never going to win with a lot of experienced listeners. Many still remember your unabashed fanboy posts prior to becoming a "reviewer".
I would be happy to oblige you on the test if that were in any way pratical. I would do it also for some good planars against the AN of your choice.
My ex was a top level pro violinist and she strongly preferred the sound of Apogees and Acoustats to pretty much everything else (I took her to friend's and shows that had mostly the conventional stuff). Horns were not big back then so she never heard good horns but I have no doubt that would have rated more highly. The other thing about my ex, was that unlike a lot of other women she was HIGHLY analytical and cared about sound quality. Another friend brought his trained ballerina girlfriend over and when she heard Acoustats with good tubes she exclaimed to her boyfriend, "Why can't your system sound this realistic??" That was embarrassing for him because he kept claiming his system sounded great even when I told him that it wasn't so realistic sounding.
So, I am happy if you bring in some top classical musicians...but they have to care...most do not. I am never sure of the outcome but I can state that I have alredy done something similar and I know what is likely to win in that setting...and it won't be AN or Ref 3a.
Are you saying that Steve Hoffman doesn't care about sound? I don't think you want to play in the "I know so and so who cares about music and owns XYZ speakers" game because the who's who list is very long.The ole - "my girlfriend even likes it and she plays violin so knows more than you or anyone else on the planet" argument is rather silly.
Since I can counter with Hoffman
"He has remastered over 500 Audiophile quality Compact Discs and LP's working with such artists as: The Eagles, The Doors, Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, The Beach Boys, Nat 'King' Cole, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, Ray Charles, Roy Orbison, Cream, The Cars, Blondie, Jim Croce, Linda Ronstadt, Jethro Tull, The Doobie Brothers, Jackson Browne, Steve Miller Band, Elton John, Van Halen, Bonnie Raitt, Al Green, Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, Stan Getz, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Art Pepper, Rod Stewart, Judy Garland, Ella Fitzgerald, Peggy Lee, Wes Montgomery and many, many, others."
He has been to many shows and gee he didn't buy any panels, Odeon or Ref 3a - but Audio Note - and he did it twice.
His current system comprises:
Audio Note UK M9, Audio Note UK M6 RIAA phono, AN UK M2 RIAA phono
Amplification:
Audio Note UK Ginrei monoblocks, Audio Note UK Jinro integrated, Audio Note UK OTO Phono SE Signature integratedSpeaker System:
Audio Note UK AN-E/SPx HE Alnico, Audio Note AN-E/SPeSpeaker Cables:
Audio Note UK: Sogon LX 96 bi-wireInterconnects:
Audio Note UK: Sogon 50I don't think you quite fathom the staggering number of artists that have bought AN over the years or the very high number of reviewers that have bought in. Sure back in the old days it was JUST RGA raving but that simply isn't the case today. Over time from my days in the past there are a lot more people who are now agreeing with me. They saw the light or heard the "sound" and they bought in.
And my AN ravings led me to get a review position and Soundhounds in Victoria was thrilled too because they had so so so many people walk into their store to try AN - and that also led people to listen to other stuff they sold. So whether it be the genuine people who wanted to hear what I was raving about and went in with an open mind or it was the people who are dimwitted slack-jawed tone deaf trolls who hate me and went in just to rip me later by saying they went to Soundhounds and hated the speakers it meant more business for them. (Indeed, I actually never got one message stating that they didn't like AN - but a LOT thanking me for introducing them to the best sound they ever heard).
And if people were turned away from being objective listeners because of some raves - that's their tough luck - they are likely listening to a much crappier system today and probably for a LOT more money just to spite me. Then so be it. Good luck to them - they're probably 8 systems down the road by now.
And I repeat again from Wes Philips (who auditioned buckets of panels and horns for Stereophile)
Forget best sound of show, for sheer emotional delivery, timbral clarity, dynamic agility, and, yes, the highest fidelity, the Audio Note system may have been the best hi-fi I have ever heard.
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/ces2009/ongaku_means_ecstasy/index.html#VxyS5uk3kVZ9OqMG.99It was not just one crank on an audio forum back in 2003 raving - I just beat a LOT Of them to punch. Or Constanine Soo who OWNED Duetta II speakers and said the AN E/D (half the price of the Duetta) was better.
They are also now being used in the recording studio - the recordings coming out are said to be some of the very best sounding pressings available today.
Meanwhile Odeon gets a terrible review in Stereophile - The reviewer sure didn't rush out and buy one now did he? Couldn't get it out the door fast enough. And this was a Whopping $12,500US loudspeaker back in the day - probably equal to a $20k speaker now. Wow. Sorry there is no excuse for coming out with such a horrible speaker for THAT price level.
I just can't believe someone in your position gets behind that brand when
Stereophile who everyone dumps on for never being negative says this
"I found the level of craftsmanship disappointing for a $9500-$12,500 pair of loudspeakers"
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/951/index.html#6WOLGFRQhp8Z0Akj.99
""Though the promised "you are there" experience never materialized, "the speakers are there" experience did.""
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/odeon-la-traviata-loudspeaker-page-2#1pAYsqLydK13t3Z0.99""For my final two weeks of listening I found the Odeons pleasant and sometimes exciting, but never convincing""
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/odeon-la-traviata-loudspeaker-page-2-0#1gqTvLWERFBfFesM.99
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/951/#zpoJEj6i1mTjd7A1.97So this is the speaker brand that you tell everyone is better than AN (and everything else for that matter) - while we have Stereophile reviewers like Art Dudley and Peter Breuninger and Peter Van Welliswaard who bought AN's and Wes Philips who claimed they were the best he ever heard. Oh and Herb Reichert who was their distributor back in the day.
I dunno man - but it seems like you prefer a lot of stuff that went belly up and no one has come along to resurrect (in a meaningful way) or newer stuff that when they get reviewed got rather ripped apart. Have they even managed US presence? The Stereophile link is dead and they don't seem to even have an English Website. Why do I get the sense you love them because your dealer friend got them for you for 1/5 the retail price or something?
I have a female friend who is also a concert violinist among other instruments and I played the Oboe - not exactly sure where that gets you or I. With regards to caring - that is an interesting point I must say. But perhaps the people in the test can be made to care if the system reproducing music is of high quality.
And you do realize that AN is in the studio now (Gearbox Records) and that their front man for ANMusic is the renowned cellist Vincent Belanger. Indeed, they have recorded the cello in mono Left and right with Vincent playing live in the center track. A more full range instrument than the Violin I might add.
Morricab - you're a smart guy and you are far better making technical engineering arguments that offer great insight to why SETs are better - but IMO you, like me, get too emotional over trying to "win" the argument. And you basically make arguments that are easily knocked down as a result. You bring in the girlfriend who is a musician - but you must know that that argument is extremely weak because you know that I can equal that argument.
And not only do I equal the argument I actually provide you the name of the musician - not the ole "my girlfriend" - you have the unknown mysterious girlfriend and I give you Vincent Belanger but heck Steve Rochlin is a drummer and he has AN J speakers. And there are many others out there who like their privacy. You can also make the case for many other speaker brands like B&W or ATC etc where they have buckets of musicians owning their products. It's not a winning case. Not for you or me - I am just pointing this out to you.
You bring in a reviewer who says "Odeon is great" I bring out 10 for Audio Note. They've been selling the Snell E/Audio Innovations Type E and Audio Note AN E for 40 years now. The heaps of reviews are staggering.
You bring out - my engineer friend loves Odeon or Reference 3a or Apogee or whatever - I bring Steve Hoffman a guy who is about as big as gets in the field. So unless the friend is putting out music anyone has ever heard of - then he/she isn't exactly on the same par.
These just are not winning hands(arguments(. You're sitting there with 7-3 off suit and I am bringing pocket aces. And if you know Texas Hold Em you know this isn't the cards(arguments) that you're going to win with.
It boils down to this - You don't like what you've heard from them - fine. I am not out to convince you. It's like panels for me in general. They don't do it for me. I can understand them - I can read all the wonderful well worded arguments for why you or an E-Stat love them. I can even often hear why people love them. But they don't do it for me. Is there really anything more to say about it? I mean I hate Brussels-sprouts. I know they're really healthy and all. I really do. I wish I could love them - but if one goes in my mouth I literally want to vomit. I even like other cabbage - love coleslaw and Kim-chi. But I can't like what I don't like.
And I like pasta - now and again. I will recommend a good pasta.
I love Salmon - to an unreasonable degree where I think I could quite literally eat salmon every single day for the rest of my life. And A&W Root Beer - every other Root Beer that I have tried and I have tried a helluva lot of them to me are varying degrees of "Ho hum it's not as good as A&W". Some things I like better. A lot better. It can't all be summed down into written words. A&W is my KING of the Root Beer hill until such time as I find something I like the taste of better. And so far only Hires Root beer has come remotely close. I have tried far more expensive root beers - meh. A&W is the boss. And guess what - in Hong Kong root beer is hated - you know why? Because when the doctor gives the people here cough syrup it tastes like root beer. Whereas in Canada cough syrup tastes like cherry.
The point of the above root beer story is that people's backgrounds and IMO their very language structures may have an impact on sound reproduction. AN's best selling dealer is Hong Kong and Singapore. Heavily heavily based on tone. 9 tone language structure. German and Austria are far more guttural and sibilant. It may very well be that what a German likes when he listens to music is very very different than the sound a Cantonese speaker will tend to like versus US English or Australian English or British or Irish or Canadian English or Japanese etc will respond to. It applies to art, design, ways of living, to music created and thus of course it should apply to sound reproduction as well.
Edits: 08/28/16 08/28/16
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