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In Reply to: RE: "Homogeneous" sound effects of certain speakers posted by RGA on August 17, 2016 at 15:08:59
So, you haven't heard Scintillas yourself I take it...you are going on pure hearsay. First of all, the problem with Scintillas is that there are very very few good sounding amps that can actually get anything useful out of them thanks to the 1 ohm (or lower) load. This usually means not great sounding bruiser SS. I can imagine Peter not liking that...I don't like it either. If you drive them properly (Allen Wright once designed a tube amp specifically to drive 1 ohm loads and that was GOOD) they can sound stupendous. Bass with a Scintilla is anything but weak and boring...you cannot compare this beast to a Maggie. If you heard dynamics the same across every recording then the electronics were to blame almost for certain.
Having had many electrostats I would say that they do better a low level reasolution than just about anything else except a good horn and even then I think they have a slight advantage. Apogees are not quite as good as that but far better than Maggies, which frankly are the cheapest made and lowest quality planars on the market. Given the high participation in the Maggie forum, I doubt that many give up their Maggies for box speakers but I would wager at least as many go the other direction.
Besides, I thought we were only talking about ribbon tweeters and not full ribbon speakers (Actually none of them are that. The bass panels are all planar magnetics and not ribbons). You can argue about planar bass all you want but at least for acoustic bass it is superior in just about every way to box bass. For rock and electro, it seems that people want that mid bass slam that planars don't really have. Only horn bass delivers the texture and nuance of planar bass with the slam of box bass...but then it has to be a damn huge horn.
Ribbon midrange (and Maggies don't have this BTW, they use push/pull planar magnetic drivers...only their tweeter is a real ribbon) like Apogee and Analysis Audio deliver, is superior to virtually every other techology in terms of tonal purity.
There is a good reason why nearly all studio instrument microphones are eitehr condenser (i.e. electrostatic) or ribbon technology and that is sound quality and sensitivity to nuance and tonality. A dynamic microphone is either just for absue by a singer on stage or for low quality recordings. With limits, the same is true for playback.
You should try to hear a good hybrid ribbon design, like the Apogee Centaur Major, if you like good tight box bass with a clear and open mid/high sound. I actually prefer this to the full planar Apogees for the most part. That said, I liked my Acoustats the best all-around. The little STAX ELS-F81s though had the purest mids and highs I have ever heard...amazing within their admittedly tight limits. My AudioStatics were also very revealing but a bit too phasey in the highs (venetian blind effect) and it drove me nuts eventually. The Acoustat Spectras didn't do that due to their advanced tech.
The best full-range planars on the market today are probably from Analysis Audio in Greece. Those also have bass that can rock due to innovation in the bass panel that has a real rubber suspension for a much larger excursion.
Have you ever heard a big Genesis? The BG drivers are pretty awesome and resolving as well but a bit edgier than a true ribbon.
What you say about Maggies I would be inclined to agree at least in part but not about Apogees...they are a whole other animal.
Follow Ups:
I have heard the Scintilla twice with recommended 1ohm capable amps, the Duetta Sig II and the Caliper.
I almost auditioned the Diva Grand but the ex Beijing Orchestra pianist sold it for the Audio Note product of the year winning Spx AlniCo that world renouwn RE Steve Hoffman a second pair.
I always continue to listen to panels.. and I will keep an open mind. I Did choose a King Sound as a show room winner. I also chose Sonist speakers as a tie...it uses a ribbon tweeter. Ditto for Acoustic Zen. My hyperbole sometimes creeps on too much.
That said when we discuss long out of business companies where there are very few left. It becomes rather pointless advising us to try and hear a particular model of a twenty year out of business maker. I can audition new speakers from New makers who should be offering better stuff today. Dynamics and mid bass is massively important for rock or percussion. The big horns when integrated well and given enough space are my favorites. Commercial products are far more compromised. But those great speakers have huge prices. The AN E LX is $5,000US. There is nothing that touches it I ME. There is a reason I will sell y AN J Spe for more than I paid for it in 2004. So as much as people get on me the fact is the market speaks on this and the market says yes they are willing to pay more now for it than it sold for new. I can buy the $2500 DeCapo for $600. Same age. The Markey has spoken.
I auditioned the big Sonist hybrid ribbon floorstander at the Sonist factory in Idaho and was very impressed. Which model(s) in the Sonist lineup are you referring to?
It's been awhile but I covered their room in the link below. Unfortunately when dagogo's website changed we lost a bunch of pictures.
From what I listed the speakers were the speakers were the Recital 3 and Concerto 3. The owner of Sonist passed away a few years ago. I am glad to see they are still in operation. More SET friendly speakers with good sound is always needed.
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