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In Reply to: RE: Harbeth P3ESR with tubes.. posted by mondial on August 10, 2016 at 20:27:45
Hi Mondial,
While in part I can agree with several of your statements, I can't agree on how " I hear " said EL84 based designs, much like many whom are into the Rose-tinted beauty of 300B based designs where their glory resides in their midband, yet as the top and lower end extremities are much better handled as far as snap, attack and nimbleness of notes by the smaller and more responsive nature of power tubes like 45s | 2A3s | 845s | 611s, it becomes all to clear that certain power tubes merely cover their behinds better then others.
And while KT88s | KT90s and so on do have a better sense of controlling the bass notes, in many ways as I mentioned earlier on, each had more of a slight solid state manner about how the reproduce the music in its entirety, which either one adjusts to, or looks elsewhere.
All I can say is by no means would I say that a minty slightly modded Leak Stereo 20, or my little $3.700 retail Woodham Audio Kalyspo EL84 based designs aren't cable of performing wonderfully with said speakers, especially the earlier 15 Ohm versions, to which are fully broken in, and while they do reproduce vocals quite well, along with more simplified music, as I still believe they become easily confused when presented with more complex music as if they're ready to detach themselves from their stands and like the Lion in the Wizard of Oz, run down the hallway and thrown themselves from the nearest window out of fear of being seen for what they can't do.
In the end, it merely becomes a reality that while I still adore Mini-Monitors on a whole, these days I merely much prefer one that's much better balanced top to bottom, and at least goes down to say 50 - 45Hz, which is nothing more then midbass, but having grown up with three different vintages of ProAc Tablettes in one form or another, as well as two versions of Linn Kans, anything below 70Hz is a blessing as it then relates to a more seamless portrayal of the actual notes which are covered.
But once again, the OP was asking about whether these speakers sound better with Tubes or Solid State?, and in my mind it has to be something from the latter camp, or a hybrid which performs more effectively in said tandem, but I'd be wrong........., yet as it seems that the Leben based gear plays quite well with said Harbeth's, but once again........., I don't hear them as being as tubey sounding as said the wares from either Shindo Labs | Wavac | Line Magnetic Audio, so it then becomes a matter of which compromises the end user is prepared to tolerate more.
Live | Learn | Love it for how it relays the notes, and in the end, it always comes back to how it reproduces the notes, no!.
Follow Ups:
Hi el34eh ,
Thanks for your reply . Not to hijack the thread by the OP I would like to know w/c speaker is better the Harbeth LS3/5a or the current HLP3ESR ? What are their strength compared to each other & vice versa? I've never auditioned the HLP3 . And I might try one when I have the chance to buy a preowned set when I get the chance to visit Hong Kong.
Btw my sister got her self HL5 Super Plus and she's using the ARC VS55 6550 based Power amp and she's very happy w/ it.
Mondial
Having owned both, I'd say the LS5/a can sound a little purer through the mids, in some systems and on some material. For me that's about it. The P3ESR is a more up-to-date version of the BBC sound, produces cleaner, more extended and more articulate bass and highs and offers remarkable detail through its range, with either SS or tubes. I very rarely listen to the 5as anymore, and may sell them. I've rotated P3s in and out for six years, and always enjoy them, even over larger or more expensive speakers. A modern classic IMO.
Hi Mondial,
You're more then welcome. Yet I can only base things upon how I hear them, as someone whom came into this hobby back in 1982, upon returning to the states after being stationed in Japan for 9 years, as this gave me a boarder means of being educated as to how different cultures do in fact appreciate music from said global perspective, I came to understand the fundamentals of basing the notes themselves as they relate to pitch | tone | timbre | timing abilities and from said point never strayed from said learnings.
In this sense along I'd have to say the Harbeth Acoustics LS 3|5As have a more organic manner of connecting the dots, where everything comes across as having less of a signature as it relates to purity, with an added sense of ease, stillness and silence between and behind each and every note, whereas to my senses the P3 | HL-P3 ESRs, while once again are quite lovely at playing vocalist at the absolute finest, they do come across as less refined when compared to the likes of standard LS 3|5As in this regards.
Yet I'd wager as I've told many friends of late, if one music collection consist entirely of vocal or simplified type recordings, then one can easily appreciate the beauty of any given Harbeth, if driven with the right sort of amp in front of them, but they like all speakers or components for that matter are still compromises, and it then becomes a question of how one wishes to hear them?, as someone whom isn't a bass freak, yet once again does seek at least a nimble, very responsive ability from my Mini-Monitors to have that sense of stopping and starting on dime without any sort of overhang in the mix, so of late I tend to look at designs which offer between 50 - 45Hz, as this serves my music well, seeming that I'm more into acoustic jazz ranging from the recordings from 1953 | 64, with some recorded afterwards by labels such as Dragon | ECM | Enja | CrissCross | SteepleChase | Venus Jazz and plenty others whom offer superior pressings to my ears.
Yet on a slightly different note, if one listens to a boarder genre of music, and doesn't require sub-woofers and the likes?, I'd say that Mini's like the Bonicke W5s | Spendor SA-1s | Neat Acoustics Motive 3SX | Audio Note Model K, all should if nothing else be sampled before committing to the above makes, as I've heard Harbeth's fall apart when asked to play even something so simple as one of Patricia Barber's Smash download, where it was beautifully rendered until she stopped playing the piano, and her band came in..........., it was as if the speakers sat there and became disjointed at the seams and refused to play any further.........., this was not a great way to show a consumer it's worth, and my friend passed on them ( Model 30.1 ) in favor of a pair of Quads.
In the end........., it's more important once again to know which type of amp is going to be used in tandem with any given speaker before hand, as synergy and sonics does not one make over the other, it's the matching of both amp and speakers, later complimented with the right voicing of ones cables is when it all comes together, done wisely.........., one can sit back and enjoy said system for years and years.
Yet if merely based upon ratings here and there, which isn't the way to judge one system........, getting out and listening to the pieces together is far more important, and better still if you can mimic the exact system you've heard and loved right down to the cabling loom and isolation devices and stands, as they all make a difference.
Enjoy your Quest as well........., until next time.
Peace.
Thanks el834eh for the reply. So that explains w/regards to resale one never lose's money when its time to sell the Harbeth LS3/5a .Your right w/ regards to recording w/ female vocals their quite good but play something complex and they're all over the place.
mondial
Hello Mondial,
Once again, you're welcome.
And I hope that the OP didn't might this post going lateral there for a moment, as it all relates more or less to his question as it stood, merely an attempt to expand upon his options as well as trying to illustrate which types of amps this brand as a whole was in fact designed around, and meant to be used with.
In many ways much like Sonus Faber designs, which are often seem paired with solid state amplification, yet it's not until they're heard driven with tubes or a hybrid based design driving them, that one finally gets it.
I'd say that more often then not the reason most still crave said LS 3|5As has to do with the way most were bought up under the influences of the British Rule as it related to many of the Asian culture, as seen with many from Korea whom seemingly prefer stuff made by Siemens in Germany, while the Japanese culture were more fascinated by gear made in American, and while some American tend to be biased about purchasing anything from either China or Japan, I'd still wager that imports do in fact to this very day, still offer better value for said wares, and a sense of musicality some USA based companies, of the ones which are still in fact owned by Americans?, have seems to have lost their way, and cater to the richest 35.000.000.00 whom can afford systems over $500.000.00, when in reality............, some of the most musical wares are to be had between the prices of $1.000 - $5.000 as it stands, in the end synergy has always been the goal in achieving a well matched system, which more often then not covers it's arse much much much better then thrown together expensive systems which can be built via blind investments.
As always........., just being subjective, but some of you will understand what I'm getting at?, higher prices can at times merely mean........., more expensive mistakes, as seemingly the ones whom can afford such luxuries are the ones whom are seen buying and selling these same items within weeks of having invested it them, but by having listened to them beforehand would've shown them how they were intended to be heard and purchased as a whole, instead of pieces here and there which obviously to anyone with a decent pair of ears, would've known didn't gel.
I'll stop there as not to offend, these lost soul........, but you know who you are.
In the meantime.........., those whom buy with their ears and heart, you've chosen wisely.
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