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I bought pair of this tweeters.. looks very usable..
Measurements are very strange.. I must wait more than month answer from Monacor 'loudspeaker expert'.. finaly they said that tweeter is defective..
But seller(Kamm Lautsprecher) ask me to send them driver back first, then I can get replacement..
My advice is to avoid seller and manufacturer..
Follow Ups:
The manufactuter states it can be used to 2k w/ 2nd order or 1.5k w/ 3rd order where it is 20 frickin db down!!! Hello? No f-ing way period.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Airtime..
Measurements are with same xover..
Awe-d-o-file..
Measurements from first post are with 4th order xover.. 20dB difference between 1k5-2k7 it is quite normal, I use 0.47mH coils and 6u8 caps just for test and some orientation about final xover, for lower cut one must use biget values..
But, difference in higher frequencies isn't normal..
What's wrong with them?
It recommends you xover at 2kHz.
Based on that response curve they arent much good below 2.7K. The website says they can be used to 2K with a second order cross, 1.5K with a third order if you read the whole page. No way based on the response in the posters graph.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
The BEST you're going to get is 2k and that's using the natural roll off of the driver itself.
You are correct that you probably SHOULD roll it off higher because using the actual bottom end of the driver as a crossover will start to introduce distortion. As well as risk failure at the extreme end range if over used.
For most modern applications it should be ok if crossed high enough.
I think you are basing that opinion on reading the op's graph. That is his graph not the manufacturers graph. Also at the manufacturers site slick the more specs or full specs link and it says exactly what I said. The tweet can be used down to 1500 hz with a third order cross. The op is saying with his measurement graph from his drivers he bought he cannot as the response below 3K is the issue and that is true. That is the point of his post.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
You missed the point..
Drivers can be used from 1k5-2k, just need different xover.. my measurements are on air without front panel, response of driver mounted on box will be different on lower frequencies..
But my problem is unacceptable difference in response of two tweeters in higher frequencies.. it is so obvious from my first post measurement..
That is what I just said. Your reply should be directed at Airtime not me.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Get a third tweeter and see if you get "three" different FR above 8khz. Chances are you will. As much as we would like to think it wouldn't happen each driver will be a tad different.
Get the third and measure it. I would like to see if it matches one or is different from the original two.
Also how old are you. If you're over 50 the point is quite academic.
Charles
First Im 57, used be a board certified hearing instrument specialist and can still hear to 15K. Second I am not the OP. I dont have the tweeters! Did you read the manufacturers page yet where it says the tweeter can be used to 1.5K with a third order crossover?I said it before and will say it again, the graph in the originsl post was made by the op not the manufacturer and with the tweeter he bought. The response being fucked up below three k is the whole point of the thread! This is my last attempt to get you to understand.
Both of you have responded to my posts as if you are talking to each other not to me. It seems English is a second language to the op, whats your excuse?
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Edits: 08/06/16
Awe-d-o-file..
You still missing the whole point of the thread..
You have frequency response of tweeter without xover in post 5, and you have schematic of xover which is used for measurements in first post..
Drivers are usable from 1k5, but with different (biger) coils, and probably caps too.. they also need front panel..
Again, whole point of the thread is unacceptable difference between two drivers on higher frequencies..
Conclusion that tweeters can't bu used bellow 3k is wrong..
I dont know who made the graph but that tweeter is 20db down @1500 and would really suck below 2700. The differences in the high frequency end pale in comparison. That tweeter shouldnt be used below 2700 even though their site says it can be used to 2k with a second order/ 12db per octave or 1500 with a third order 18 db per octave crossover. BULLSHIT!!
Reread your original post. You show a response graph and no other information about the graph. Im done responding to you. You can tell everyone else why the 3-5 db difference in response from 2.7k to 20k is worse than the 20 db difference between 1.5k and 2.7 k. You realize how stupid that sounds and more importantly actually is I hope......but I doubt it. Good luck.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
I dont know who made the graph but that tweeter is 20db down @1500 and would really suck below 2700. The differences in the high frequency end pale in comparison. That tweeter shouldnt be used below 2700 even though their site says it can be used to 2k with a second order/ 12db per octave or 1500 with a third order 18 db per octave crossover. BULLSHIT!!
Reread your original post. You show a response graph and no other information about the graph. Im done responding to you. You can tell everyone else why the 3-5 db difference in response from 2.7k to 20k is worse than the 20 db difference between 1.5k and 2.7 k. You realize how stupid that sounds and more importantly actually is I hope......but I doubt it. Good luck.
The first measurement you keep picking at was made WITH THE CROSSOVER
NOT THE BARE DRIVER
vulejov has tried to explain this to you MULTIPLE TIMES
He posted the crossover circuit
He posted measurements with and without the crossover
Still you don't seem to get it
Thanks Dave
I haven't been much help myself only to see if he get's variable results using other tweeters as well. My be an inherent design problem.
Just asking:
Did you do the measurements with the SAME crossover. What I am getting at is if you are using two crossovers you could have a crappy capacitor on one channel causing the difference????
Me - I'm stupid.
Na I just read this stuff in the morning. I guess I should be more awake if I'm gonna respond. Sorry.
charles
In meantime I got call from Monacor, they will send me replacement driver, blue one from first post is defective..
Distorsion with and without xover, significant difference..
Edits: 08/05/16
Is the top graph of distortion with crossover using the same driver & crossover as in your first post? It looks flatter in the top graph. Your fist post showed a 5 dB dip in the response at 6k relative to peaks at 3700 and 9-10K. The variation seems less in this distortion plot even with less smoothing. I'm just curious because it's not often that a driver gets flatter as you increase the level from 85 to 95 dB.
Drivers are measured with identical 4th order xover, it is very easy and logical to conclude from frequency responce..
There is small difference between two from 5 to 8kHz, and not so small from 8 to 20kHz.. of course, that difference is problem..
Drivers are usable from 1k5-2k, with low THD..
Edits: 08/05/16 08/05/16
If you don't see difference between two measured drivers I can't help you..
Of course, expert from Monacor see difference, and finaly I got message that they will send me replacement..
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