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In Reply to: RE: New Reference 3A Monitor... posted by hahax@verizon.net on July 29, 2016 at 15:21:57
I don't really like to make many assumptions based purely on the design since with every speaker they come with strengths and weaknesses. I have heard pretty much every Reference 3A speaker that has come out since about 1997. I have heard many of the new ones here in Hong Kong with the BE tweeters. I like the new ones a lot less since they moved to BE tweeters. Other speakers in the same room with $30,000+ MSB gear sounded better - RossoFiorintino and Harbeth (in a similar room with the same MSB gear). Same equipment but both lines to me sounded better.The crossoverless approach is fine but would that not rely more heavily on the sonic signature of the drivers? Reference 3a was designed by Daniel Dehay and they had a silk dome mated to a softer woofer material and the hand off was mostly seamless with a sort of BBC depression if I recall. Nevertheless it sounded warm and inviting. The new designers have opted for the BE tweeter - and now it sounds all attack and leading edge and rather tiring. The dealer in Hong Kong directed me to RossoFiorintino speakers instead (also a metal tweeter) but sounded largely correct. I think some outfits are just slapping in technically advanced drivers because "Hey - BE is sexier than a silk dome" and it will sell because on paper perhaps it looks better. To me the speaker has lost that certain something character that it had under Dehay.
I heard a small floorstander but the dealer blew the woofer in my audition, so I could not get much of a read on how it sounded.
Edits: 07/31/16Follow Ups:
There is definitely a quite long break in period required for the BE tweeter on this speaker and seemingly all Ref 3a products as they all use the BE tweeter. I had issues during the audition but figured it was break-in related which proved all too true. YMMV but I would ask if you've heard a Ref 3a product with BE properly broken in outside a dealer showroom and in a home environment? It is quite a lengthy process.Just bringing it up because I've seen you make numerous negative comments about the BE of Ref 3a products and metal tweeters in general which I too would generally agreed with in my experience. I think Tash nailed it here as I find it extremely well implemented and a dramatic improvement over a pair of L'Integrals with the soft dome tweeter I am quite familiar with. The Decapo demonstrates no brightness with a superb sense of transparency, clarity and soundstaging with no edginess. I have a friend with the Taksim, again a long break-in which I suspect is still going on but it IS improving, more relaxed as time goes on paralleling my experience with the Decapo.
Edits: 08/03/16
You nailed it Tubegroover. I had the same results when I upgraded my Ref3a Master Control MMCs. Once broken in, the result was a very significant improvement over the Vifa softdome that was originally used (interestingly, the L'Integrale and La Veritas, both of which I also owned, used the same Vifa tweeter). I also upgraded the tweeters in my L'integrales but to a better softdome from Seas. That too was a big improvement but not nearly as good as the Be tweeter upgrade. Resolution was across the board improved without any metallic hardness.
I would have eventually upgraded my L'integrales as well if I hadn't found a super deal on my Odeon horns.
I also found the integration to be quite good and the time coherence of the speakers gave better overall coherence than most other two-ways.
I don't really have issues with metal tweeters. I have issues with their lack of integration with drivers that have sonic signatures that don't sound anything like metal tweeters. At some crossover point both the woofer and the tweeter are reproducing the exact same notes at the exact same time and two very dissimilar sounding drivers can be heard battling each other in my opinion. It's why so many people like single drivers and electrostats. Two way speakers (and three+ways) fail to varying degrees to sound cohesive enough. Truthfully, none of the Reference 3a speakers even under Dehay were the best at this IME which is why in direct comparisons in the same room with the same gear - I wound up with speakers that sounded a lot more neutral and cohesive in the midrange.
The issue isn't break in or room related. It is simply a preference. It's similar to my KEF LS-50 which has a metallic aftertaste in the presentation. Even though the measurements are superb and Stereophile hails them as one of the best standmounts ever made - they reside firmly in 4th place of the speakers I own. One of which is 1/3 less money.
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