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In Reply to: RE: as usual, I an nore confused with the information posted by cloudwalker on July 26, 2016 at 21:00:01
you guys definitely know speakers well. From the outside, this asylum seems like a club. You guys usually do a good job of sticking up for each other, while trying to have an answer that everyone else missed.
Still, I asked 2 questions that no one answered...1) are these other adjustments possible on better speakers? 2)And if not, do you wish they were? Keep up the good work..
Follow Ups:
I use analogue active crossovers (BSS FDS360) and they allow me to adjust the phase between the 4 pass bands continuously through 360deg.
The crossover frequency and the slopes are set on little plug-in cards. You can choose any slope or frequency you like and are able to produce with commercially available capacitors and resistors (inductors have thankfully been replaced by opamps).
I don't think any of this would be possible with a passive crossover.
Which is possibly a good thing: Less adjustability for the end consumer means fewer ways in which he can screw things up.
Yamaha at some point fitted parametric eqs to some of their pre amps but it was a bit beyond the understanding of the average customer.
1. Do some have an adjustable crossover slope?
Most speakers don't because the designer has already optimized the design. Once you've taken the time to establish the ideal blending frequencies, why change them?
2. Do some have an adjustable phase? What about main speakers? Why are these not adjustable?
Absolute phase can easily be adjusted any number of ways. Simply swap cable polarity. Such is better handled with active electronics. Both my preamp and DAC offer a phase invert switch. The reason why subs have them is they are being blended with a variety of speakers most frequently of a different brand which do not behave consistently. Some sound optimal with no change. Others sound optimal with the phase inverted. The idea is to have the entire speaker system push all the drivers at the same time. Such is already established with the main speakers.
The overriding difference between subs and mains is that the designer of the former and the designer of the latter rarely get together to determine what is optimum. Adding subs is always a challenge. With my main system, I have no need for them. I greatly prefer the coherence of having a single driver cover all ten octaves.
With the HT, I spent hours empirically measuring the results of tuning a number of variables to achieve the most linear response with a pair of subs:
1. High pass frequency to mains
2. Low pass frequency to subs
3. Sub level
I used the attached spreadsheet and ran through perhaps two dozen trials using a Stereophile test disk and SPL meter before arriving at the final settings. Correction to the RS unit are built in. The room still suffers from a couple of modes, but the overall result is reasonably linear.
I get decidedly better results upstairs where I have more latitude with speaker and listener placement and use a small forest of bass traps.
It does seem that some of you are defensive at times..I am sorry if my typing was not perfect, I certainly tried to do my best because I feared this might happen. You are a gentleman E sat...
I think the challenge for many of us with answering your questions is trying to figure out "where to start"? since we've been exposed to the complexity of the topic for many decades. I was tinkering with modifying Braun LV-1020s forty years ago when I was a teenager.
There are many knowledgeable and helpful folks, both amateur and professional alike at the Asylum.
Are you aware, for example, of Tom Danley's (tomservo) work at Danley Labs? In my experience, sound reinforcement systems are largely compromised in one way or another due to the requirements of their primary task. His designs are refreshingly different. Rather than bolting a bunch of uncorrelated horns of varying shapes and sizes together, his synergy horns radiate all output from a single "mouth". Remember my comments about having consistent directivity? Here's one innovative way to achieve that! Also, due to their controlled pattern, they can put together in arrays, both vertically and horizontally.
Just like the pro version of my electrostats.
Can I give you some ? Firstly read the answers you get properly. I answered your first question by pointing out (to paraphrase) that a loudspeaker designer will not allow adjustments that would compromise his design. The adjustments that are available are limited. You never mentioned "better speakers" but if you had the answer is the same.My second piece of advice is; if you ask a question expect an answer to it and not to another one that you have thought of subsequently. You did not ask anywhere in your original post whether or not inmates may wish for additonal adjustments. Here is your original post so you may check:
"can we really have the "perfect speaker?
I am here to learn what I "need to" learn about speakers. You answered my question well about orders of crossovers...but..
Does this apply to subwoofers to? Most have an adjustable crossover point and some have a phase shift (usually 180 degrees. ). Do some have an adjustable crossover slope? Do some have an adjustable phase? What about main speakers? Why are these not adjustable? But then some songs have different needs. Some songs would have changing needs. And then we all like to hear music differently. Maybe too many choices is not a good thing, or we would make ourselves mad.."
Edits: 07/27/16
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