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I'm both tired and no longer interested in the challenge of finding a speaker pair compatible with my sub after finding and restoring a few pairs of nice small speakers (Infinity RS-225 and Polk Monitor 4 among them).Can someone recommend a floorstander that does not need a sub?
I prefer to find and restore a used set, but I'll consider new as well. My budget is low, hence the preference for used. I am pretty good at refoaming, rebuilding crossovers and all the rest.
Equipment is an integrated amp (Outlaw RR-2150) with the following specs:
Continuous Average Power:
100 watts per channel, 20 Hz - 20kHz,<0.03% THD, both channels driven into 8 ohms
160 watts per channel, 20 Hz - 20kHz,<0.03% THD, both channels driven into 4 ohmsIt can also work as a preamp so I'm not averse to speakers that need more power than this can provide.
The problem is that my music tastes range from classical to rock to bass-heavy electronic and almost everything in between. My truly critical listening comes with classical and blues. So if they are better suited for that than say, AC/DC or Tiesto, I prefer to err on the side of classical and acoustic.
The sources are a Music Hall MMF-5 with a moving magnet Goldring cart and an ever changing array of CD/SACD players depending on my luck at the thrifts or CL.
Just to provide complete info, I've been at this for a while and have also been looking at DIY solutions, but recent time shortages (thank heaven...it means I'm working more!) make the DIY path, while attractive, a little more difficult now.
Budget is up to $1500 but hoping to keep it below that.
Edits: 01/27/16 01/27/16Follow Ups:
I would recommend PSB Stratus Golds, Goldis or, perhaps Silvers or Silver Is or somet hing more recent.
I had a pair of Stratus Golds. They and their replacement, Gold i, are really superb full-range speakers.
I see them for sale on e-Bay at $500-800 quite often and, for the money, I think they'd be hard to beat.
Enjoy your music!
George
Takes some time & searching, but I've seen various iterations of the Matrix 801 available (in awesome condition) from anything between $800 and UP!
Might be quite tempted at a good pair of KEF 107s, as well.
NOT saying I'd be opposed to your PSB recommendations - quite nice choices!
One of the best selling nearly full range speakers of all time are the Vandersteen 2's. The older ones aren't my favorites, but you can easily afford a pretty new pair. A poster above stated that he doesn't like them for orchestral due to the highly detailed and revealing mid range the newer ones use. I've never heard them sound the way he states. Maybe the ones he heard aren't set up properly or are using a not so good source or amplification. Richard makes a speaker that reduces smearing in the mids so they are detailed without being harsh. There are some good choices for you. It will depend on what you listen to and what you want in a speaker. I personally find many speakers at all price ranges from 500k down to 300pr sound tilted up in the high end. To me, that's fatiguing as heck and I hate it. Others seem to feel speakers like that are more 'open'. Some of the bass in this price range will be boom boom boom and not tuneful. Just things to keep in mind. A 4 year old pair of Vandersteen 2's should be in your price range and often you can find a pair as many of the owners are moving up in the Vandersteen line.
Again, there are many other speakers that folks have mentioned that probably deserve an audition if you are able to go listen. I never understood how a speaker is good for one genre and not another. To me a great speaker just replicates sound properly. The more you pay, the more and better bass you should get or it may just be more refinement in the mids on up. Good luck
If you and the seller can strike a deal there is a set of Revel F52's listed in the trader here for $1800.00. This speaker goes deeper than most floorstanders I've heard, incredibly low with detail, it is also very flat response and balanced in sound. I have a set and they do great on any genre I play through them but you will really be impressed with large orchestral or modern music with low end, I've even heard low detail in Pink Floyd, DSOTM I hadn't noticed until owning the F52. My only concern would be whether the Outlaw had enough current to do the speakers justice, but they are bi-ampable if willing to upgrade/add on down the road. Check out the reviews in TAS, S&V or HTR
the 9th!That's it exactly!!!
Regardless of the little tiff down there. This statement is absolutely what I'm talking about.
Maybe I'm looking more at a used pair and maybe I need to bump up my budget?
I know that it's a lot to ask that a speaker be "froo froo" and all delicate yet also have the wherewithal to sling out AC/DC and popular electronic music.
Does a speker like that even exist under 2K?
Edits: 01/29/16
I'm close
ATC speakers can do it but they are $$$
And you won't have to fiddle about with crossovers, refoaming and such. They are for sale here or on A'gon all the time, usually $1100 - 1700/pr. depending upon condition, model, etc....
-RW-
Edits: 01/29/16
That may help.
An old Klipsh from the late 90's early 2000's. It's pretty powerful but it doesn't mesh well with anything I have had here:
Polk Monitor 4
Hornshoppe Horns
Infinity RS225
Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers
Tose are all nice "computer monitors" as far as I am concerned. I want to go big. No replacement for displacement.
for a nearly full range speaker for really reasonable money, you need to look at the ELAC line just produced by Andrew Jones. as good as the bs22s are, the ELACs are WAY better.even the smallest, the B5, is amazingly close to full range. i heard them at THE Show Newport 2015 drivewn by a 100wpc bel canto amp and was taken aback. they are available from amazon with free shipping.
they are increasingly better as you go up the line i have read, not listened for myself.
...regards...tr
Edits: 01/31/16
$1250
Great speaker but amp sensitive. Love omni directional speakers. Also room sensitive.Owned the F for a decade.
Scratch the Vandy 2CE Sigs of your list if you like to classical a lot. They are great for jazz and acoustic type stuff but that midrange driver cannot handle large scale orchestral works. Strings sound harsh. In your price range I would look at JBL studio 580 or 590. I like JBL horns for classical. Check out the online reviews.
Or XLS-215
These should not require a sub and will play the harder hitting music well - it's not the most refined in the treble but that's true of most $1500 speakers and most of those won't do the big loud music like Tiesto and AC/DC nearly as well (or well at all).They were also reviewed favourably - I have heard it and it's surprisingly good for the money. BUT - they are HUMONGOUS.
CV doesn't get the credit they deserve because of their history for making boom and sizzle speakers but they are under new ownership and it's not the same Cerwin Vega from the 80s and 90s.
Edits: 01/27/16
review below:
if ever i would seriously listen to a CV speaker, REGs review makes me want to. it used to be that they were all headache inducing but this speaker begs to be auditioned.
...regards...tr
The sad thing is they're not expensive enough or possess a froo-froo- boutique name to be taken seriously. If I had the space I'd have a pair of these. A man's man's speaker!
Not a speaker for Frasier and Niles Crane!
Nice pic! I had the CV AT-12 from the late 80's into the mid 90's.
Excellent speaker for mid-fi.
Go USED
If I had that sort of a preference but I did not want to buy subwoofers, I'd check out these. Made in USA, and a bargain at $898 in black or $998 in Maple finish...
Edits: 01/27/16
So all you're out is shipping if you don't like them.
I'd love to hear a pair. I'll bet in the right room they'd be really good.
"To Learn Who Rules Over You, Simply Find Out Who You Are Not Allowed to Criticize."
-Voltaire
John Marks has suggested that two pairs of Silents (placed back-to-back) can be used to fill a large room with spacious sound. For anyone on a budget who thinks they might be moving to a bigger place someday...
Finding decent budget amplification for these is the only real challenge.
50Wpc, Class A/B
jm
I no longer see 2.0 listed at Audio Advisor.
Fig.7 Direct Acoustics Silent Speaker II, spatially averaged, 1/6-octave response in JA's listening room (red trace); and of BBC LS3/5a (blue).
QUOTE
Though it's fair to say that the Direct Acoustics Silent Speaker II did better with classical music than with rock, it's still a very well-balanced design at an affordable price, with a totality of performance that exceeds the sum of its parts. I'm not surprised that John Marks liked it as much as he did.
John Atkinson
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/direct-acoustics-silent-speaker-ii-measurements#zqIguKdSr4HjQprH.99
JM SAYS:
And in the all-important midrange, FROM A LISTENING POSITION, they were pretty much ying and yang with JA's reference pair of vintage LS3/5As.
DISCLOSURE: On more than one occasion, Winslow Burhoe and his wife have burst out laughing at my R-rated sense of humor.
ATB,
John
Please explain to me the necessity of the disclosure.
jm
If these are ying to the LS3/5a's yang and I love LS3/5a's does that mean I'd hate these?
"To Learn Who Rules Over You, Simply Find Out Who You Are Not Allowed to Criticize."
-Voltaire
Any version of the LS-3/5a or Harbeth P3ESR will utterly SUCK with Tiesto and AC/DC though. Bigger scale classical or jazz (big band) will also stink. And while the OP wants a speaker that leans more to classical and jazz - his criteria does include those genres.
JA doesn't hold much value for speakers with any sort of dynamics ability which is why he tends to favor all these weak willed no bass, no dynamics, early compression boring ass froo froo speakers.
Put in Nightwish or sklipknott and crank the dial. If it can't do that competently it sure as hell isn't doing the 9th!
I hope John sees your comment and replies. I'd be shocked if he agrees with your comment. That he loves the LS3/5a probably just indicates he knows its pluses and minuses and uses them appropriately.
Yes there are some pluses that I noted in a review - mainly if you have a small room. But their limits outweigh the pluses and current prices of new versions are frankly far too high for the sound on tap.They've been bypassed by much better sounding speakers over the years that are more coherent have better bass and treble and midrange and cost less.
I get the appeal of them here in Hong Kong, where I live, where apartments are tiny - but for Americans in American sized homes?
A decent LS3/5a sells for more than the CV I mentioned above - the CV has a bit of an unrefined treble (but then so does every LS-3/5a so the only real weakness of the CV isn't beaten by the LS-3/5a enough to make up for the 4 extra octaves the ability to play multiple times louder with scale dynamics and weight and also be easier to drive.
Amazingly they sell those big CVs here in HK as well and people are willing to stuff them in motor home sized apartments. Crank up AC/DC or Tiesto or Beethoven's 9th and the CV will trounce any LS-3/5a.
Now the CV may be unrefined in spots - it will bring in more colouration and probably a little box thump that will ride with the rest of the sound but the visceral live sensation will at least be somewhat present (and never is on any LS-3/5a).
I think if one makes a T chart on the strengths and the kind of music that can be played - there will be a much greater list of pluses favouring the CV or something like the CV than tiny - please the wife - speakers.
Note: not just picking on the LS-3/5a - I generally feel that way about most all small box speakers. I mean I own the LS-50 and the Audio Note AX Two and have had others - whenever I read the words AC/DC or music like Tiesto as something the OP intends to play (and why mention them if you don't) then I look at the recommendations and usually scratch my head. All of these kinds of speakers generally suck with that sort of music. And indeed, both of my two small speakers both have much better bass and dynamics than any LS3/5a and will kill them on music like AC/DC and Tiesto. And geez both of these cost less money to boot.
The KEF is a fine speaker.
Edits: 01/27/16 01/27/16
I agree with your comments on the speakers. That wasn't what I reacted to.It was the implcation that John Atkinson liking the LS3/5a meant he didn't like speakers with dynamics. I doubt that's true. Just that he likes what the LS3/5a does well does not imply a dislike for dynamic reproduction.
And the LS3/5a was not designed to be used the way audiophiles use it. It was designed for close up monitoring in cramped spaces with just a few feet of space.
Would probably be my first choice.
"To Learn Who Rules Over You, Simply Find Out Who You Are Not Allowed to Criticize."
-Voltaire
The MA 6 is a wonderful speaker. Three of my friends bought it on my recommendation and they are very happy with it. A lot of clean bass too.
Cheers
Bill
At least with the bronze and silver ranges. I think their more expensive stuff might not be best for the buck in those price ranges.
But the Silver series - it's a bargain.
"To Learn Who Rules Over You, Simply Find Out Who You Are Not Allowed to Criticize."
-Voltaire
Spatial M3's. A bit over budget with shipping, but list is right at $1500. 45 day trail period.
There are a few pairs of Vandersteen 2CE signatures listed on AudiogoN for $800. I think Vandersteen will fit the bill !
Nt
They have fantastic deals on speakers. Reference quality for pennies on the dollar. Or not.
The universe is made of electrons, protons, neutrons, and morons.
Take a look at the PSB Imagine X2T. They fit most if not all the criteria you've laid down. Frq resp advertised is 30hz to 23,000hz (+/- 3db). Not sure if they'll go low enough for you, but PSB has a good rep for bang included for the buck asked.
The SVS Prime towers are suppose to be good speakers that put out a good amount of bass. After all their forte is subs but they make great speakers too.........
If you are open to used for values sake you should include your location too. Speaker shipping can be a lot as well as the potential damage issue. Used speakers can also often be local pick up only.That said based on your desired sound and bass requirement, t line to 28hz, the pair of Decware MG944 towers here in the AA trader would do very well. They are in Vermont or you can pay $100 plus for shipping depending where you are. They are under budget and have a nice ribbon tweeter. $750
ET
Edits: 01/27/16 01/27/16
YOU should provide any budget limitations for the speakers.
Helps hone down the symphony to a focused chamber group
and will provide you with more useful info/responses.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
No more than $1500 but lower if possible. Also edited the original.
Edits: 01/27/16
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