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Man, this shakes my faith in JBL, or any other Harman product for that matter. Whatever happened to planned retirements, retirement parties for lifetime employees and the presentation of gold watches? Now we have 90 second notices and then an escort from the building? Seems pretty shabby to me.If this is all the concern they have for a lifetime employee, just how much will they be able to muster for a customer with a warranty issue?
JE
Edits: 10/01/15 10/01/15Follow Ups:
I'm going to keep my eyes open for any products Greg Timbers might have his hands in for development in the future. I've had very little respect for Harman in the past and something like this doesn't surprise me. I owned some Lexicon products and followed a very active Lexicon forum for a few years. After Harman bought out Lexicon along came the re-badged Oppo incident and they let an engineer like Dr David Greisinger slip away. I've avoided buying any Harman products for years and incidents like this only further my distaste for them.
Harman lost me as a customer after they turned 40 years of classic Infinity speakers into mass market rubbish..
Vitus SCD025MkII, SIA025, Oppo BPD-103AU, Magico S5's, Taoc ASR racks + SCB-RS50g, Stillpoints Ultra 6's/Mini's/LPI's, Furutech GTX-D(G), Gigawatt PC-3 SE Evo, Jorma Prime pc's + xlr's/Statement sc's/Unity pc, Siltech Classic Anniversary rcas + HDMI
Edits: 10/04/15
Another thought;
shiver me timbers?
There is no such thing for longevity...
That's the way it goes now. A friend of mine - senior partner at a very large law firm retired....was with the firm for 40 years...just got a wave goodbye. Gold watches are just not done anymore.
My company got me a watch @ 5 years... still runs.. So do I, Hope to leave in Five years @ 65.
I've been a fan of Greg and JBL loudspeakers design forever - I grew up in SoCal. Visited the Northridge Factory many times.
Favorite JBL loudspeaker system: L-212
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
I fell in love with the L-212 as soon as Playboy featured it in its year-end round up of the best in electronics, oh so many years ago.
(Of course, the smoking hot chick seemingly orgasming on the subwoofer may have had some bearing on my initial very positive impression of the system....... ) ;-)
Two engineers right out of college can make less than one Senior Engineer - plus an older person's health care cost are way higher than younger people.
This is the new America - learn it - love it - live it
It's Bullshit!
It's best to work for yourself.
JOHN,, THAT was 20 30 years ago,,,Thats a lot of water under the bridge..
Over at avsforum.com, Greg made an interesting post regarding some repeated misinformation that's been made in the audio press about who designed some of the Revel speakers. His post is now deleted, but other posts quoting it are not. One such post is here . What's been happening apparently is that a marketing guy named Kevin Voecks has told the audio press on numerous occasions that he is the designer of the products he's speaking to them about, when he is not a designer at all. According to Greg, the actual designer is a guy named Mark Glazer.
So how many times has this misinformation been put out? Here is a link to a google search of stereophile.com showing many instances in which they claim that Voecks is the Revel speaker designer. The link uses "let me google that for you" not to make fun of the person clicking on it, but because it's a more complex search criterion than normal.
So, assuming Greg is right, and I have no reason to doubt him, Voecks has been BSing people for years about this. Seems like they fired the wrong guy.
> Over at avsforum.com, Greg made an interesting post regarding some
> repeated misinformation that's been made in the audio press about who
> designed some of the Revel speakers...What's been happening apparently is
> that a marketing guy named Kevin Voecks has told the audio press on
> numerous occasions that he is the designer of the products he's speaking
> to them about, when he is not a designer at all. According to Greg, the
> actual designer is a guy named Mark Glazer.
For whatever reason, Greg was wrong about Kevin Voecks being just a
"marketing guy," though he was correct about Mark Glazer. See my Asylum
post linked below.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
...it shouldn't surprise any sane person that you would simply link to more unsubstantiated claims from your magazine as "support" for your argument.
In the end, it becomes a conflict between the bullshit artists of the audio press and their enablers, and those who speak inconvenient truths. It seems likely that you are at the wrong end of history with respect to this issue. And if you are, I'm sure you'll be the first to admit it, LOL!
> Since doubling down on bullshit is your stock in trade...it shouldn't
> surprise any sane person that you would simply link to more
> unsubstantiated claims from your magazine as "support" for your argument.I interviewed Sandy Berlin in 1995 when he was thinking of hiring Kevin
Voecks to head the design team for a new speaker company to be called Revel.
You weren't there. I know all the people mentioned in this thread. I first
met Greg Timbers in 1981, Kevin Voecks in 1987, and Mark Glazer in 1997.
You don't know any of these people. All you know is what you read on the
Internet. End of story.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Edits: 10/04/15 10/04/15
(your own, my favorite kind). In short, according to you, he and others said the same thing years ago, and you repeated that too, with zero investigation. Therefore what he said must be correct. But you never checked it, and never will, because you are a puppet of the industry.The philosopher H.G. Frankfurt wrote an essay called "On Bullshit". In it, he distinguished the liar from the bullshitter. In his view, the distinction was that the liar actually cares about the truth, because it could adversely affect him (such as admitting where he was when that bank was robbed). But the bullshitter is one who has no regard for the truth whatsoever. If a bullshitter states a falsehood as the truth, then his actions following that statement will be such as to double down on it. The idea is that, for the bullshitter, only narratives matter. So if a member of the press publicizes false information, what matters most is that the information be perceived as true even in the event of inadvertent error or maliciousness. To admit that one is wrong is completely out of the question in that scenario.
Edits: 10/04/15
> In short, according to you, he and others said the same thing years ago,
> and you repeated that too, with zero investigation. Therefore what he said
> must be correct. But you never checked it, and never will, because you are
> a puppet of the industry.
So much anger, so little comprehension!
What did I do, give a product you own a bad review :-)
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
In the one article I read it's the person doing the interview, Larry Greenhill, who calls Kevin "the designer".
Kevin uses the term "our design team" repeatedly.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I'm a bit mystified. I looked at the post you mentioned and Kevin Voecks is mentioned as selecting the drivers and involved in cross over design. This is not just a marketing description. It's a description of a speaker designer in charge of substantial portions of a design(crossovers are the heart of a speaker).
So it's sad to hear of the Timber release after many years and many designs and it sure sounds wrong but his description of Kevin is not just a marketing man.
And I know from a very good fried and speaker designer that , at least years ago when he knew him well, Kevin was an excellent designer. And my friend was always very parsimonious with his praise.
It sounds like more info is needed here.
Greg Timbers simply was JBL for decades.
This is more like Apple giving Steve Jobs 90 seconds notice to leave because he had reached retirement age.
JE
"This is more like Apple giving Steve Jobs 90 seconds notice to leave because he had reached retirement age."
Might be a bit too late for that...
thread crapping is, after all, his M.O. in this Asylum.
JE
Come on Bob_C. The issue here is the abrupt termination by an individual who has had a great impact on the audio landscape over the last four decades. Do you really have to use this as an excuse to further your vendetta against me?
je
Are you serious??? Nobody else can post here???
You posted about someone who IS DECEASED being fired!!! and you think that is appropriate???
Sorry but the gentleman that was fired was not Steve Jobs.
You mentioned your story... people have commented, don't disrespect the dead...
People would rather read about something more interesting like the new Elac speakers.
So you are one of those new generation wusses who is offended at everything? That explains a lot.
Please. Again. Let's make this thread about Greg Timbers and not your emotional short comings.
JE
...but I understand how my post might be construed as having done so. Just trying to shed some light on the bad behavior of Harman in this regard.
GT was one of the nicest folks to meet and a great contributor to high end over the last several years. I'm not only sorry to see him go, I'm outraged by the callous manner in which he was dismissed by Harman.
I'm not saying everyone should be treated like him, but I am saying that people like him do deserve special treatment. Shame on Harman for not understanding that distinction.
JE
Is anybody surprised at how low Harman has sunk? When they can allow one of their highly regarded brands, Lexicon, take a Oppo blu-ray player and slap it in a different box to masquerade as theirs the end is near.
Edits: 10/02/15
There is always a second side to the story to which we are not privy.
I wonder what it is.
Logic would dictate that an honored, valuable employee would never be fired with 90 seconds' notice. Think about it. It makes no sense, and such heavy handed treatment might cost them more in litigation or damaged reputation.
There must have been a reason.
A reason which we likely will not know.
:)
always listen to the defense before making a judgment in a case.
I'd set it aside in this instance as I simply cannot imagine what Greg Timbers could have done that would warrant his dismissal in such a cavalier fashion.
Still, as a matter of principle, I have to agree with you: we do not know what Harman's position is in all this.
That said, I don't think we will ever know what Harman was thinking when they marched Greg Timbers out the door. Reasonable position or not, they will claim "privacy" and not say anything further.
Still, I find it difficult to believe that a highly valued employee, who was virtually the face of the franchise, suddenly went "haywire" and damaged the brand to the extent that he needed immediate termination. I mean, tell me, besides this incident, what of note have you heard about JBL or Harman in the last few weeks?
JE
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