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Hi Guys,Does anyone here actually level their speakers (mine are floorstanders with ordinary spikes on "shoes") with a spirit bubble level? Till now, any adjustments I made was to ensure that they were as stable as I could get them and that they didn't rock. Got a hold of a spirit bubble level today and discovered that my speakers are actually quite aways from being level. Will get them level the best I can this weekend. Wondering now how exactly did being off level affect the SQ and to what degree. Anyone?
Thanks for the input.
Edits: 09/09/15Follow Ups:
Why would you want to, or even care about, leveling your speakers?
Position them the way they sound best in your room.
My speakers are tilted back about 30 degrees, against the wall. Why? Glad you asked. Because the tweets are fairly directional, and the room is fairly absorptive (furniture, carpet), so tilting them back gets more HF sound into the room.
:)
Don't you reckon that your head's position varies a couple of degrees from day to day when listening to your system? If so, what great benefit could be had by ensuring that your speakers were 100% level? This all seems much ado about nothing, IMHO...
-RW-
but first I try to sell them before I deliver fatal kick.
Turntables definitely benefit from being level. Although ideal loudspeaker positioning varies widely between designs, there are probably few that would substantially benefit from being level. From a mechanical perspective, the cone surround and spider shouldn't perform much differently when operated with a nominal tilt. Horizontally mounted woofers can suffer from cone sag with a commensurate loss in excursion and output, but that is another matter.
This guy, Gary Koh, is the chief, cook and bottle washer at Genesis, where the speaker setup is usually a part of the purchase price. He has written a lot about speaker set-up that he has learned. The link here points to a paper he wrote that addresses 10 different speaker adjustments and the effects they control in proper alignment. Each procedure is in its own section of the paper and refers to a specific piece of downloadable music that will be a good model to illustrate what will change and how much to adjust before listening for results. All you would ever want to know about speaker/room geometry.
Everything is going to the dogs
tilt back according to Vandersteen instructions.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Click below.Because they are spheres on dished and spiked (3 by 3 at each join) stands, adjustment is simple, but they _are_ heavy, weighing about 77 pounds. Getting the right position in the room is hard work, but the tweaking is very satisfying
It's like focussing stereoscopic aerial photographs. In that, 'suddenly' images are as good as a recording allows.
Given low diffraction effects and time alignment this is worth doing.
Doesn't hurt that there is little self-noise from the enclosures. And that includes the low diffraction!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 09/11/15
Leveling those speakers, the spherical enclosures make that an exercise in futility for "audiophile" standards (+- 0.5 deg I suspect [smile]).
VERY nice antenna you have there, mate!! Everyone stresses over tuner specs and such when sorting an FM rig. But many years ago I realized that the antenna is the single most important piece of kit. And all because me dear ol' Dad, may he RIP, schooled me about such matters. And he knew whereof he spoke, he was one of the designers of the US's DEW Line. Google it...[grin]
-RW-
So, it doesn't matter about how 'level' they are, 1970's sprung wooden floor makes that a nonsense, anyway. ;-)I use angle measuring tool with a spirit level, plus a torch in the dark and a tape measure - to get close to equilateral distances, and then I listen for focus, small adjustments until it all clicks into place.
Vacuuming under them happens just once a year. One gets better and quicker with practice.
In any case there's a new 3-sphere point-source array / tower coming where all baffles will be kept vertical. ? WR driver middle (smaller sphere) and a woofer top and bottom in the sphere model pictured. Then, three distributed subs from 35 down.
Antennas? I am old enough to know a bit about the DEW line :-).
My knowledge of antennas and RF began with going down the senior NCO path for Australian Infantry. You were expected to have passed for signaler, as well as all the other specialist roles of an Infantry Bn, eg. mortars, MGs, Int. When equipment changed you became a student again for a few hrs or days.
Back-pack or pouch-pack radios. Or the same types in 4WDs. I found in the field that the best reception with the multi-segment whips or laminate bendy whips was always where there was the least cover from view / fire. Concentrates the mind.
So my platoon -> coy -> Bn began to get through lots of long-wires and vertical end-feds. It is surprising how quickly you can get a long antenna up with a corded weight! ;-). And how difficult it is to pull them down. ;-)
That antenna up the top of the mast is going to be replaced, soon. And the UHF will go as it is redundant. No UHF TV on the main tower.
It was bought in 1980/1 to do VHF band I, II and III (TV and FM) duty and didn't need a lot of gain, as signal levels were then quite high. But I needed multi-path / ghost help? Canberra is in the Great Dividing Range. And, we sit between two decent sized hills, Mt Taylor and Mt Arawang.
There will hence be two 6-element VHF yagi antennas, one for FM* and one for VHF-HD- TV up to our Ch12.
*I don't just need full limiting on my strongest station into my three SS FM front ends, but into the valve front-end in the main system. And on one of our weakest but good sounding stations, for whom I record live acoustic concerts in two-mike stereo.
On top of that we have several FM and TV wall-plate outlets in the house, the unused ones have load-plugs.
And, now that weak one has moved NE from the main tower that carries most of Canberra's TV and FM.
So, I/we will aim the new higher gain FM antenna between the two sites.
Another influence for audio and radio was John Dunlavy, when he was based here in Canberra, the wave-guide man. He liked / respected these Audiosphere 3s. He was a quite dour man and I was still young.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 09/17/15 09/17/15
My speakers used to be perfectly level and symmetrically positioned. One day I did a "what if".
Keep in mind my ESL63's are infamous for beaming, and my room is not perfect.
The best SQ for me was having neither speaker level, dissimilar toe-ins, unequal distance from back and side walls. Pretty much as unorthodox as you can get.
But I wouldn't have known if I hadn't of tried.
So there you have it. Remember not to force yourself to think they should sound better being level.
Let your ears be the final judge.
Cheers!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
no one on this thread is really addressing how to align the speakers. As you can tell, height/tilt back of the speaker really affects the sound. Only when the speakers are properly aligned will the full recreation of the event take place. Although speakers are built with the same measurements, floors will bow or not be exactly square causing the speakers to not work together. Even a slightly off flooring will mean inches off at the listening position. If the speakers are aligned, the difference in or out makes a very significant upgrade.
I adjust to my seating position for the speakers I'm using. Some speakers are level, others I tilt forward or backward to what sounds best for me.
One quick way of telling is while playing a familiar piece stand up slowly and then squat slowly getting a feel for what sounds best . then adjust your tilt or level accordingly.
Using monitors on stands. I level the stands and make sure they don't rock back and forth in any direction. If for nothing else, aesthetics. Audiophiles obsess about so many things, we sure as heck don't want crooked speakers :)
Speakers should always be sitting solidly on their feet to avoid distortion. Though the relative benefits you can obtain from leveling depend on the type of speakers and tweeters used. For example, having owned Infinity Renaissance 90's, I think you would get less of a change/benefit from leveling those speakers due to the nature of the High Energy Emim & Emit drivers & design of the speaker. Whereas the Magico S5's beryllium tweeters need to be sitting level & ideally at or very slightly below the listener's ears.
To that end, a friend recently came over to help me re-position my S5's after initial break in. We took time to tweak toe in & used a spirit level to level the speakers. Those changes resulted in greater balance and ease & a slight improvement in image focus.
So it depends on your speakers off-axis performance and way they interact with the room, all of which should be very apparent from initial setup.
Vitus SCD025, SIA025, Oppo BPD-103AU, Magico S5's, Taoc ASR racks + SCB-RS50g, Stillpoints Ultra 6's/Mini's/LPI's, Furutech GTX-D(G), Gigawatt PC-3 SE Evo, Jorma Prime pc's + xlr's/Statement sc's/Unity pc, Siltech Classic Anniversary rcas + HDMI
Yes indeed...and boy does it make a difference. If you need instructions, let me know.
Depends on loudspeakers design radiation pattern etc
Wondering now how exactly did being off level affect the SQ and to what degree.
This weekend when you level them the best you can you will be able to easily use your own ears and have a definitive answer. It does not get any easier than this.
FWIW my floor standers are level.
Smile
Sox
why wouldn't you? it's free. it makes them more coherent. a set of sound-o-city outriggers makes for an easy job of it. i use tilt back on mine as the builder recommends.
Tom Collins
... Replying to me?
Smile
Sox
Yes the rake angle I use Stats
Bill
My speakers (on stands) are a bit short, so they are angled up ...and sound better that way.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Most speakers I've worked with sound best when level. Some
designers recommend a (usually) rearward tilt. Specific listening
heights are also a factor (tweeter to ear optimization).
If you don't become the ocean, you'll be seasick every day.
- Leonard Cohen
If one obsesses about this, maybe it's not the speakers that are level.
Just because you didn't know about it, doesn't mean it's a secret.
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