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Do we need giant expensive speakers, giant expensive amps, expensive speaker cables, room treatments, sub woofers and expensive DACs? Maybe not! Maybe all you need is this:please check out: http://kiiaudio.com/en/
And also read the review just published: http://kiiaudio.com/en/component/phocadownload/category/1-revies.html?download=2:audio-review-test-09-2015-englishThe review said this speaker was the best they had ever heard in 30 years of testing. $10,000 Euros for the pair......6 ncore amps in each speaker plus ADC/DAC/processors....zowzer wowzer! This is less money than the Merlin latest greatest speaker and you get DACs, amps, no need for speaker cables and room treatment....What? What you say? Could it be true? 19 cycle bass from a 33 lb. speaker? What?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They will have larger floor standing models for sure that will play 120db with even more powerful bass....but this "baby speaker" would satisfy 80% of us. Bruno strikes again! If this review is true then a shakeup of the whole industry has just started.
Edits: 09/08/15 09/08/15 09/08/15 09/08/15 09/08/15Follow Ups:
Intriguing product, but it looks to have only AES, analogue, and WISA (wireless) input. To me, WISA is more useful for home theater applications (8 channel support), but there isn't all that much support out there currently, especially for 2-channel audiophile audio. Kii does have ethernet port on it, but it says it's for "future kii products" only.
If I could stream my audio files directly from NAS via DLNA or ethernet cable to the Kii speakers, now THAT would really cut down on clutter, and if the sonics prove worthy (I already like Ncore sound), then these may be very interesting to me..
and I look forward to demoing a pair. Hopefully they won't need a snake oil power cord.
Yawn
So, what excites you? What turns you on? Obviously, not these tiny giant killers. What makes you the life of the party? How do you transmit your aliveness to others? Is there joy in your life?
I like cables, tubes, large boxy speakers, turntables, transformers, big heat generating amps, humongous equipment stands, old dusty records, stained and broken cd cases, crazy panel speakers that have lethal voltages, hifi systems that totally dominate the room, tiny shoebox size speakers that turn my living room into a night club. I like that after 40 years of messing about in all this stuff it still interests me. A one box consumer product that replaces all this goodness, zen, etc. is not very exciting to me.
majordude wrote:
"I like cables, tubes, large boxy speakers, turntables, transformers, big heat generating amps, humongous equipment stands, old dusty records, stained and broken cd cases, crazy panel speakers that have lethal voltages, hifi systems that totally dominate the room, tiny shoebox size speakers that turn my living room into a night club. I like that after 40 years of messing about in all this stuff it still interests me. A one box consumer product that replaces all this goodness, zen, etc. is not very exciting to me."
I totally agree. If someone figures out how to make a miniature 32 Hz sound wave then perhaps I will want to begin listening to little miniature speakers the size of a clock radio.
They look like a great space saving option to get into high end sound, and I think with apartment sizes getting smaller there can only be increased demand for lifestyle products like these.Conceptually they look very sound & have some cool features, though I think an 'all in one' solution can only get you so far. D'Agostino just released their Momentum lifestyle amp which includes an integrated amp, wireless streaming, dac, Apple AirPlay, bluetooth & Internet radio.
No doubt the D'ag sounds good, but as a purist I couldn't see myself down-shifting to a one-box solution. In fact i'm keen to trade up my SIA-025 for separates in the near future. It's just a matter of preference and what you're trying to achieve.
Vitus SCD025, SIA025, Oppo BPD-103AU, Magico S5's, Taoc ASR racks + SCB-RS50g, Stillpoints Ultra 6's/Mini's/LPI's, Furutech GTX-D(G), Gigawatt PC-3 SE Evo, Jorma Prime pc's + xlr's/Statement sc's/Unity pc, Siltech Classic Anniversary rcas + HDMI
Edits: 09/10/15
(I'm assuming, of course, that they are good) a LARGER version of these will sound even better. Better to match the loudspeaker to the room before matching the room (acoustics) to the loudspeaker!
They have moved the "room correction software" from the receiver/amp to the speaker-
Oh the amp is in the speaker - never mind-
Another means of adapting HiFis to the room, without listening-
I'll keep what I have - and may even take advantage of the coming abandonment of that OLD technology that this new product will obsolete...
Happy Listening
You're an entertaining fellow Ric. :)
For that kind of cash you can get some nice ME Geithain actives which also have a cardioid bass response, although without resorting to the crude method of using extra amps and woofers, and already are able to to produce 120dBspl.Also ME Geithain have been around for over 50 years and build everything (amps & drivers) in house which accounts for quite a bit in my book.
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The big powered monitors from ME Geithan are big black boxes (over 100lbs.). They have no beauty or WAF. The amps are not the latest Ncore amps with servo control of each driver. They do no have time and phase alignment for perfect step response (at least I think so). They do not go down to 19hz. They do not have a digital input (6 built in DACs). They do not have WIFI capability......and most important....I doubt they are as transparent...I seriously doubt it. You have a 15 woofer going to 500hz.......that has got to be way slower and have more overhang than four 6 inch woofers with their own super servo amps. Nothing like this has ever been done before. Yes, the MEs will play louder, but how many people really need 120db.....heck any monster speaker with parallel 15s can do that. What we need is a seriously transparent low distortion small speaker that gets rid of speaker cables, amplifiers, DACs, power cords, sub woofers and racks........this may be the baby. Fun times ahead.Meridian's latest $80,000 monster DSP speaker may be quite, quite good. However, it is over 200 lbs......and well, $80,000. Not something you would buy on a whim. The 33lb. Kii is $14,000 and small enough to transport to your buddies house to blow his mind. Sort of like having a blown Hemi in a Volkswagen.
Edits: 09/10/15
They are only black boxes if you choose black veneer. Pick another one.
The german state broadcaster (and a large number of recording engineers) found them to be the most transparent speakers on the market. Given that these people are pretty much the only ones who get to compare speakers to the original source I put a lot more trust into their comments than some HiFi reviewer.
I have no issues with a 15" woofer running up to 500Hz or so. Many of the best speakers use similarly sized woofers up to a similar range. I do have issues with tiny midwoofers being pressed into use at frequencies too low for their size. 6" is a good midrange size but it is not a woofer. Also not all four 'woofers' contribute to the overall sound level since they are utilized to provide the cardioid bass response the crude way (ie at least the rear one is out of phase with the front one).
The 901Ks average around 0.25% THD at 96dBspl. This is physically impossible to achieve with tiny drivers as small 'woofers' need to make up for their size by excursion. Not a good solution.
Small drivers also need to have moving mass added to achieve a suitably low Fs so they are probably not that much lighter than a big one.
One needs 120dBspl capability at 1m in order to listen at 4m with 95dBspl and sufficient headroom for dynamics but that is less important once you limit yourself to over-compressed modern pop drivel which I don't. I do not need wifi capabilities.
The ME 901K1s were reviewed by the same person in Audio Mag in May. I cannot read the details because the teaser is to small (you have to download the review in German and pay for it?).....but he gave it 102 points whereas this speaker he gave 104 points and clearly says it is the best he has heard....he heard both, in his listening room. Maybe you can download the review and tell us what he said and his numeric ratings for the various categories (which proves nothing as it is one man's opinion). But at least he heard both in his room. The 901K1s have the amps separate from the speaker....below is a link to the webpage and a pic of the speakers....high WAF? I don't think so.....portable....he he....not likely.http://www.me-geithain.de/index.php/en/highend/products/active-loudspeaker/me-901k1
Edits: 09/10/15 09/10/15
Yeah, you have to pay to see the test.
Btw if you want DSP you could always spec the 901s (or any other of their 3way monitors) with this rather than the standard MosFet amps:
All of the above brands have received some very favourable reviews of their active speakers but none have set the world on fire. I wonder has the reviewer listened to any of these?
The Kii fits price-wise in between the Dynaudio Focus XD range and the Linn Exakt Akudorik and Akubarik. The review would be a lot more interesting with a comparison to one or both of these.
Yes, the revolution is coming and it won't be televised. Active digital speakers....good stuff. Here is a review of the $7000 (price raise since review) Dynaudio goodie:http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/07/dynaudio-focus-200-xd-speakers-review.html
again, no DAC, no racks, no speaker cables, no amps....just this pretty box and great sound. Throw those tubes away.....we are home! He he.
This is just the beginning....we will see more and more digital active speakers and they will simply get better and better. How about a Kii 3 Reference with Raal ribbon and ceramic midrange....and on and on.
Edits: 09/10/15
Revolution? Evolution. I can see speakers of this type becoming the s significant progression for the common/mainstream/off-the-shelf audiophile industry or folks looking for good sound in a tidy package.
Maybe I will like them. Maybe I won't.
Regards,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
I generally like the Dynaudio Focus range (non-XD) and I own Dynaudio C2s. From what I've been told the performance of the Focus XD is a level above the Focus. So I'm looking forward to an opportunity to hear them.
The Linn Exakt are accurate, precise, fast, clear, transparent and all that good stuff in spades, but a little lean and not as dynamic as I expected for an active speaker.
I heard a demo of Linn's concept and found it kinda of flat at the demo. That was just my take on the Linn demo I heard. That system did room correction. The Linnsters in the room seemed enthralled. I already do some eq in the digital domain to enhance poor recordings. I would love to hear this system.
you already sell the amps, why not the speakers?
Go for it, dude!
What are you talking about? I don't sell Ncore amps....maybe mod one a year. In fact, I am finishing a design on an antiquated technology called class A. I will not be a dealer for the speakers, please, use your brain!
We can build the amps for you and also mod the modules for even better sound.
Are you aware of what is found on your website here ?
I do not sell Ncore amps.....no one can sell Ncore NC400 modules. I can assemble an amp for people if you buy the modules and have them delivered here. I have done this 3 times in the last 2.5 years. I make no money from selling Ncore. I made a couple of bucks assembling an amp for those who cannot DIY themselves. Your original post was an attempt to make my post irrelevant because you think I have something to gain (money). Completely false. I am excited about what I see as an incredible move forward in audio transparency. Please be happy. Please stop resisting. Happiness is more fun!
This is what I'm saying.
because you think I have something to gain (money)
And you're not?
You are right. I am going to make millions assembling amplifiers using Ncore modules....in fact, I made a couple of hundred on the last one I did in December.....please, grow up! What do you think of the speaker technology? Do you have anything useful to add to the conversation? Or are you just self serving? Who are you serving? Where is the Love?Let it go! Breath. Living is incredible.
Please, I love you. You are Beautiful.....and so am I.
Edits: 09/09/15
I befriended an audio dealer long ago because I found him to be an honest guy and later worked for him. He sold lines that he genuinely believed in. When Acoustat released its first speaker, Bob Rieman and Jim Strickland brought a pair to Atlanta for review. We had the opportunity to meet them at the reviewer's home and listen to the new product. My dealer friend was soon selling them as well. I have a pair because of that connection. I thought you might want to follow his approach.
As for the new product, as others have indicated it shares design elements found in other speakers. Maybe their version will be more successful. I do, however, find it hyperbole that this will be an industry changer.
Peace.
They'll be fun to quote later on, I expect. Last speakers I heard that seemed even remotely like these was a generation ago, Meridian M2's. Gangbusters. Never heard the later Meridian stuff. Anyway, you've got my ears.
Edits: 09/09/15
This type of powered speaker is so radical that the convervative, stogy, analog loving, big box loving, tube loving, cynics, etc....people are going to resist, resist and resist this.
The German Audio Magazine is the equivalent of the Absolute Sound or Stereophile.....they have reviewed tons of super equipment....but, of course, we have not heard of them....being americans. If Robert Harley or John Atkinson made these kind of remarks, you would take them more seriously. Do you think the guy at Audio got paid to say this....would they put their whole reputation on the line for a few bucks? Come on.....he called it has he heard it and measured it.
There will be a lot of eating crow and crying over expensive paper weights when this all settles. It will take years to convince everyone.....but in the end even most of the tube lovers will come around......just wait and see.
Check out the What's Best forum.....they are way more open to these speakers...many cannot wait to hear it. There really is light outside the cave...but you have to take a risk and go out to see for yourself.
That post will surely earn you some converts!
If you don't become the ocean, you'll be seasick every day.
- Leonard Cohen
I am merely shaking the tree....sometimes a ripe apple will fall....and it is really yummy. Yummy is good.
... That is not exactly the metaphor which came to mind.
But the motion is right.
d:o)
Smile
Sox
n
" It doesn't take over your habitat like a huge old audiophile setup, there are no racks, no big towers, no cables to trip over. Instead, there's intelligence!"
1 - If I can't trip over a big-ass cable every now and then, where's the fun?
2 - "Instead, there's intelligence" I see. My current system is unintelligent. I like it anyway.
I seriously don't think most audiophiles would want something that is too simple - would just rob the hobby of precisely the elements that draw the participants - a certain complexity and the interplay of objectivity with subjectivity
JaroTheWise
... it was published in the now-defunct The Audio Critic. First two paragraphs kind of let you know everything you need to, and in all fairness, I could've stopped right there.
No actual comparisons to anything, either - just the pronouncement that it's the best the guy heard in 30 yers. Forgive me for being sceptical, and while we're at baseless pronouncements, here's one of my own: I don't think he heard anything good in those 30 years.
The amount of technology packed into those speakers is certainly impressive. Now, if we could only get an idea whether they, for instance, do the "soundstage thing" on par with combination of Chinese tube integrated from eBay plus $500 monitors - or only slightly worse.
Couldn't help it, sorry.
The evolution of the NHT Xd. This isn't new news, btw.
I doubt this will cause any shakeup, though. There are very few speaker companies in the position to change their way of thinking (and have the expertise to go down this path). Not to mention the deeply-rooted misconceptions of audiophiles, etc.
Your era is safe for now.
Since every speaker is a balance of compromises, it leaves a lot of room for new ideas. Here, one of the trade-offs is the extreme cost/complexity of the relatively simple looking speaker. According to the directivity claims, you should have a hard time hearing it if you're behind it (especially in a large space). That would be interesting to see.
Edits: 09/09/15
The advent of the CD seemed like the end of an era too. If an era lasts 20 years, consider it lucky.
Edits: 09/09/15
... Everybody has an opinion.
I'm sceptical. Time will tell.
But I won't be holding my breath.
Smile
Sox
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