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In Reply to: RE: Without knowledge it won't make sense posted by Craiger56 on July 16, 2015 at 10:22:04
I saw exactly this same argument occurring on the subject in another forum - at least I think it was the same. Basically if the same current runs through both bi wire cables or if the high pass low pass causes the content of the wires to be different.
I was wondering the answer and I don't know it - but assumed that "nothing exists in the wire until the circuit is closed" and once it is closed with a filter in place then only the unfiltered content will be running in it
If this is NOT true then at least Vandersteen's rationale makes no sense
JaroTheWise
Follow Ups:
Both cables in a passive bi-wire setup have the same electrical POTENTIAL.
IT's true, "the high pass low pass causes the CURRENT (not content) measured in milliamperes, of the wires to be different".
What exists in the wire untill the circuit is closed is an electrical potential, that can be measured with a VOLT METER or a FREQUENCY METER but not an AMMETER because without electrical continuity (a circuit) to a LOAD there is NO CURRENT or milliamperes.
If you were to separate the two wires on your toaster and place a clamp-on ammeter on one of the wires, you would not see any amperage (current) untill depressing the lever to make toast.
Your statement "and once it is closed with a filter in place then only the unfiltered content (current) will be running in it" is correct.
Regards, Craig
nt
The VOLTAGE delivered to both pairs of speaker terminals by both cables is full range. Due to the different impedances of the crossover networks and the different impedances of the drivers, the CURRENT flowing through both cables is different and not full range.
"nothing exists in the wire until the circuit is closed" is not correct. When connected to a voltage source (i.e. the amp), an electric field exists in the wire regardless of whether current is flowing. The electric field provides the electro-motive force that causes charges to flow in the wire creating current.
Magnetic induction per Faraday's Law would result in VOLTAGE being induced in the HF cable by currents in the LF cable.
Well you certainly know better than I do so I make no claim to contest what you are saying - I just find the topic interesting to prove or disprove the validity of the rationale of bi-wiring - at least the rationale as stated by Vandersteen and the Hall Effect. Some were arguing I think that the whole signal current existed in the wiring despite the crossovers which would invalidate it - but I assumed that Vandersteen could not be so wrong in stating it, even if he might be wrong in saying the Hall Effect is the major element that is responsible for the benefit
Not to mention that many or most "bi-wire" cables are either one cable with a second set of pigtails at the speaker end or alternatively two runs of cable but put in the same sheath which also would not benefit from eliminating Hall effect factors - unless maybe they were insulated in some manner to prevent it
But I find these posts educational - as I was never schooled in this subject
JaroTheWise
He said he measured the magnetic field with a Hall effect probe.
If you draw out the circuit diagrams for the single wire and bi-wire cases and do a bit of algebra to solve for the total impedance, you will find that the total impedance of the bi-wire setup is different than single wire within the frequency region around the crossover point where the filter responses overlap.
You can also draw a circuit diagram with a voltage source at the woofer representing back-EMF and calculate how much of this reaches the tweeter. You will find the answer is different for the single wire and bi-wire cases within the frequency region around the crossover point.
All the discussion about differences in current in the wires is really besides the point. That's not what makes bi-wiring different than single wiring - at least not from a theoretical POV.
Well the reason that I cite it is just parroting Vandersteen mostly - yet I find his explanation improbable enough to gladly accept other explanations - I think some of these other "causes" are maybe more tied into a specific speaker design as being one that would benefit
Heck if the Hall effect was really it then it sounds like you could take a seperate double biwire and put the wires together and then pull them apart and hear the difference - which I can try but seriously think nothing would be audible
JaroTheWise
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