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In Reply to: RE: Four Focal 10K515 woofers, need ideas posted by Presto on April 09, 2015 at 23:37:25
Presto, here is the original use for the 10K515 woofers. I completely agree that it seems counter inituitive to stop a driver that is good up to 2khz somewhere in the 80hz range. They are very, very good 3way design woofers and possibly(?) a worthy 2way woofer. I am not really looking to build a pair of subs as I understand these are not that type of driver at all.
I guess what I am trying to ask help with is this, at one time a long time ago I was able to take T/S parameters and run them through simulation software to see if combining or pairing woofers in compound, isobaric, coupled cavity etc. made a positive and appreciable difference. I was able to come up with some outstanding examples with these alternate methods vs the original design that the manufacturer utilized. It was also quickly apparent when the specs did not lend themselves to these. Now I have no tools and have lost the vast majority of my knowledge on the subject so my hopes are that someone can look at these Focals and give an indication as to whether they would or would not work in a paired situation.
For an example of what I'm babbling about. Around 1989-90 we had a decent sounding Altec Lansing 2way speaker in our store that used a new woven carbon fiber woofer. After getting the specs on the 8" woofer from Altec I played with box loading options and found two things that surprised all the sales guys. First go was building a cabinet that used 2 8"s in compound isobarik. This made a medium-large bookshelf play like the floor standing tower in the same line of Altecs, actually all votes said better. (Yes x-over tweaks were done to adjust for the change in woofer specs, thanks to Solen) We all agreed that the isobarik was light years better than the ported original. This led to the second go with the same woofers. A small stand alone isobarik enclosure that I tested as a bass extender in a very nice car audio system I had. It ended up as a small cube that sat in the rear hatch area driven by an Alpine amp with sub x-over set to around 80-100hz no sub boost. This little isobarik I built beat every sub package we offered in store by a long shot. It was not meant to rattle the car in subterranean bass but to play down to 28hz articulately and it did it in spades. Jaded audiophile sales guys were all impressed and twenty or more were built for us and friends.
A pair of these Altec cubes were used later in my life with a Marchand electronic x-over with a pair of Snell Type K I believe. Those Altec woofers were never designed as subs but in that build they could fill that last octave so well that I never gave it a second thought that I was wasting the drivers performance from 80hz up.
Sorry for the rambling..........I hope I made enough sense to express my initial thought.
Follow Ups:
If you have (4) woofs, use them in an isobaric -designed speaker.
That's kinda what I'm asking for a little help with. I'd love to use these drivers instead of trying to sell them or worse yet, let them sit in a closet.
There are plenty of diy'er(s) here in the asylum.
Hmm... isobaric. Not my specialty by any means - I've never built one and I am not that well versed with the theory.
If you're dead set on isobaric, I would talk to someone with more experience with these designs, and I would confirm that this woof is a good candidate.
The more I think about it, the more I would want to try it in a 3.5 way. Thing is, these woofs do have quite a high Vas, and ported alignments range from 2.5 to 6 cubic feet per woofer. For two, you're starting at a five cubic foot box... and that's no small box.
So isobaric is more attractive because you can put two units in the same size box that would normally accommodate 1 woofer and get the same low frequency performance.
The woofs in those three-ways I built... 10V01... they appear to be a polyglass variant of the same woofer - high sensitivity. These things give very tight and tuneful bass in a sealed box, but then I ended up using a sub despite using 10" woofers, which a lot of people didn't "get".
The Kevlar version does have a nice xmax... I bet it would perform very well in the right ported box.
Sorry, but this has to bake in the back of my mind for a few more days!!
In any case, these are quality woofs and can be used for *something* that can sound really good. The question is: which design philosophy should one pursue? This is one of those cases where it's NOT a "no-brainer".
This is a "brainer"!
Cheers,
Presto
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