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In Reply to: RE: For me, three things: timbre, timbre, timbre posted by hesson11 on January 18, 2015 at 15:40:22
Please explain to me how a colored, inaccurate speaker can exhibit natural timbre! Could it be that the extra timbre you are hearing that you think is something other speakers are missing is actually an artificial construct of the speaker itself? Dont get me wrong there is something comforting about the Harbeth sound, the speaker itself just adds too much to my ears.
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nt
So, a system ignites memories and strikes emotional chords in one individual but not in another...
I have no problem understanding that. Do you?
"So, a system ignites memories and strikes emotional chords in one individual but not in another...I have no problem understanding that. Do you? "
Nope, not at all. Once I realized that my entire spend/sell cycle was based on me trying to get the sound I remember from the old Capehart console I grew up with...well, it became easier to settle on a system. Of course, if I went back and listened to that same console system now, I'd be disappointed. But it's the memory of it I love.
So now I have a tube amp driving a couple of Harbeth Compact 7-ES3 speakers and I'm pretty happy. The Harbeths were pricey, even when I bought them a few years back, and they've gotten a little pricier since. But since I don't ever expect to replace them, I'm just amortizing the cost over the next 20 years or so...
"Do you need those light bulbs on your stereo?" - my niece, looking at a Dynaco ST-70
Edits: 02/01/15 02/01/15
Of course I have no problem with what you state nor do I object.
Do you have trouble understanding the difference between perception and measurable reality?
I understand that perceptions and measurable realities seem to be at odds with one another, at times.Maybe we haven't yet mastered the art of measuring?
Edits: 01/20/15
All dynamic loudspeakers are colored - THD is above 1%. They are all uniquely inaccurate. Harbeth's coloration is better suitable to classical. We all pick our poisons. For real truth of timbre, go to original Quad ESL.
I don't know how. I just know what I hear, and the Harbeths create the most natural-sounding likeness of what I hear in the concert hall. I don't find them "comforting." I find them realistic. I don't know how they can be "colored" and "inaccurate" if they sound like the real thing to me. I don't want to hear what's on recordings. I want to hear what I hear in the concert hall, as closely as possible. That's what Harbeths deliver.
-Bob
The only person you have to answer to is you. All loudspeakers - every damn one of them - is inaccurate.
Show me the speaker that has 0 distortion at 100dB, perfect phase, flat response full bandwidth (polar response is the standard) without deviation from the left and right speakers (ie; pair matching is perfect) perfect macro micro and mid dynamics, zero deviation of any kind anywhere.
So once you accept the fact that the speaker isn't accurate you can now put a big ole smile on your face and buy a speaker that makes you happy. You have now accepted the fact that you will be making various trades - a little more XYZ at the expense of ABC - someone else will want more ABC than what the Harbeths can muster but probably won't have the XYZ that Harbeth fans find to be the magic elixir.
And the reality is there are so many fans of different "truths" on audio forums and in the press. One guy will tell you it MUST be an active boxed speaker like ATC, someone else will tell you it must be a horn, a single driver, someone else will say it must be a Panel, a transmission line, must be pistonic speakers, an omni-directional and each will espouse the supreme accuracy of the technology. It must be this or that tweeter, it must use scanspeak, it must be SET friendly....
The truth is that the horn has some strengths, the omni-directionals do some amazing thing, the transmission line or single driver can't be bettered. And then each will trot out a measurement of some aspect of the speaker that does indeed look better than the rest of the field - they target the thing that makes it look better as some sort of evidence of their superior preference.
And all of that crap falls away if when you audition the Harbeths versus highly touted XYZ the Harbeth makes the musicians come alive in your room when XYZ doesn't.
I don't want to hear what's on recordings. I want to hear what I hear in the concert hall, as closely as possible. That's what Harbeths deliver.
-BobAny Deviation from the recording is coloration (distortion), so you may like what it does, accuracy is not it ...
Regards..
Edits: 01/19/15
"Any Deviation from the recording is coloration (distortion), so you may like what it does, accuracy is not it ..."
Right. And that's okay with me! After listening to live music and recorded music for more than 50 years, I can safely say I don't really know or care what "accuracy" sounds like. But I do love what music sounds like. Besides, as RGA points out above, what speaker has ever achieved no "deviation from the recording"?
-Bob
As I mentioned, all dynamic loudspeakers are very colored with high harmonic distortion - as compared to, let's say, amplifiers. There is no accurate dynamic loudspeaker in existence. They all deviate from the recording in their own unique ways. Harbeth is my kind of poison - but for real truth of timbre, I trust Quad ESL.
...as if factual, that these things are "colored and inaccurate". My opinion is very much otherwise, and yes, it's only an opinion. All I can say is that no other speaker I've had differentiates recordings as well as these, and I'm unaware of any better criterium for neutrality. Again, yes, just one person's judgement.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
...to determine *"accuracy?" I always wanted to know, should we trust the professional reviewers to tell us that. Or should we go with what it pleases our perception of accuracy?
“Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn’t. - Charles Bukowski
My "perception of accuracy" is based upon both reason and emotional response. First (and perhaps foremost), my perception is based upon that which sounds most like music to my ears.
Following quickly on the heel steps of a purely emotional response comes reason. If reviewers who are also recording engineers (John Atkinson or John Marks, for example) say that certain speakers transmit sounds that closely resemble those heard on the recording dates they are familiar with, I would give their opinions serious consideration - even if my ears are telling me I should do otherwise.
A combination of trust and mistrust (toward myself and others) provides a system of checks and balances, so to speak. The "truth", for me, lies somewhere in between my subjective perceptions and literal reality. What I think to be true is not absolutely true.
Great explanation! Thx!
“Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn’t. - Charles Bukowski
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