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In Reply to: RE: What is so great about Harbeth's? posted by Eldragon on January 17, 2015 at 17:36:11
I might listen to them when my listening room is finished, but what I see is that in the UK a pair of one of their speakers (HL5+) is $2,500 cheaper, 3379 GBP v. 7500 USD. Importer adds an extra layer of middleman I suppose. May sound great, but that's a huge price pop for me and I'd consider comparable U.S. domestic speakers first.
Follow Ups:
The P3 and C7 are about $300 more here than in the UK, which I imagine can be justified by the cost of shipping and promotion. The SHL5 and M30 are marked up about $2000, and that seems based on marketing.
Interestingly, to me, is that the inflation adjusted price of the C7 is about the same as when it was originally introduced 20 years ago. (There was a lower reintroductory price a few years later to kickstart the brand and the new distributor.)
I think they're all good value at UK prices.
I bought a pair of C7's new about 13 years ago.
They were $2000. Now they're $4000.
At the time their LS3/5a variant was about $1795. Now it's $2395.
So how come the C7's have doubled and the little speaker hasn't?
Good reviews. And market demand.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
I've told you more than once, the price you paid was an effort to help the new NA distributor get the brand established in the US. It was a sale price, a promotion, less than the UK price at the time, even though they didnt say so. Much earlier, I paid 1000 pounds, about $1650 at the time, because they were having a promotion in the UK. The original price was 1300 there and 2500 here. Only an audiophile would think a shoebox sized speaker at $2300 is fairly priced while complaining about the price of the C7.I paid $500 for new P3's 20 years ago. Now, I guess I'd have to pay 4 1/2 times as much for the new version.
Edits: 01/18/15
I like them a lot but other than the P3ESR (which is still pricey) I consider them quite a bit over priced in the U.S. market.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
you think handmade in England is cheap?
You think those cabinets are made in England?
Interesting.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
nt.
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
They'd like you to think that.
But not so.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
I copied and pasted this from the FAQ on the Harbeth site:
"100% of all Harbeth loudspeaker systems are designed and hand made in England, at the Harbeth factory in Lindfield by the same small team. Likewise, all Harbeth cabinets are made in the UK by experienced craftsmen."
I hope they wouldn't lie.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Live rate 1 GBP = 1.51 $US so 3379 GBP would trade for $5100. I suppose you could argue exchange rate historically since the speakers here now were made some other time, and of course goods prices are stickier than currency, but I don't think the GBP/$ has fluctuated that much, $0.25 or so over the last couple of years.
Some other type of "arbitrage" going on there.
Introduce an importer (necessary) and shipping, insurance, warranty service etc. and they like to get paid as well. Whether it's worth $2500 is up to the listener.
Try running a business some day that imports luxury goods.
As I have stated before, in general, for loudspeakers and components but not cables or accessories, if US retail MSRP is $10,000, the dealer gets 40 points off (but pays inland freight). That 40-point gross margin today is to some degree used up with discounts. Very few audio products can hold the line on retail prices. From the remainder the dealer has to pay the staff and keep the lights on and visit CES and perhaps exhibit at a regional audio show. And pay taxes and pay himself.
The importer gets paid $6000 for the product offered at retail for $10,000. Out of that $6000, the importer has to pay the manufacturer $4000 and also pay Customs, Insurance, Freight, Warehousing, Inventory Tax, Payroll, Advertising, and rent, utilities, and insurance on an office (or operate out of a home)...
The manufacturer gets paid $4000, but he has a factory to keep open and workers to pay (AFAIK, Harbeth makes its cabinets in-house, as does ATC) and so the direct cost of parts and labor is not usually more than $2000 for an imported speaker with a US MSRP of $10,000.
And pray tell, what kind of margins and costs do you think the fur business and the grand piano business run on? The fine-jewelry business?
How much do you think the stone in a $5000 engagement ring was worth when it was dug up in South Africa?
How much does the farmer get paid for Romaine lettuce or Fuji apples?
jm
No way Harbeth has 2K in manu cost for that model , not that it matters , i have nothing against them getting what the market will bare even if cost was only 50.00 ...
Regards ......
The importation of luxury goods adds an extra layer of cost on top of any domestic production/distribution of luxury goods (or Fuji apples or romaine lettuce) and it's up to the consumer to decide if they want domestic Honeycrisp or green leaf instead. Or, Devore, Joseph Audio, Avalon...
Aerial.
Their marketing would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Middle Ages, but, the products have excellent engineering, top-quality construction, and are very fairly priced.
Aerial's 5B with dedicated stands I believe is under $3000, and in some respects it obviously outperforms many imports in the $4000 to $5500 tier.
But if the other aspects are what one is focusing on, then paying extra for what you want is worth it--to them.
When the Editor of Steinway's classical-music lifestyle magazine asked me for a recommendation, we talked and he ended up--for his situation--choosing Aerial's 6. But when another person in that organization wanted a great speaker for his situation, he ended up with Harbeth P3ESRs. Both, last I heard, were very happy.
JM
Can you explain , this is a 2 way sealed cabinet , why the multiple peaks .....
> Can you explain, this is a 2 way sealed cabinet, why the multiple peaks
The single peak in the bass is due to the sealed-cabinet loading of the
woofer, the twin peaks in the upper midrange are due to the crossover,
which is more complex than is usually the case with a two-way design.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
The single peak in the bass is due to the sealed-cabinet loading of the
woofer, the twin peaks in the upper midrange are due to the crossover,
which is more complex than is usually the case with a two-way design.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Thanks for the response John.
nt
Are the 30.1's six grand in the U.S. and just over four grand in Canada?
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
Don't know that, but maybe smaller market, less demand, less greedy, urrr I mean lower overhead importer? Is the importer the same for US/Can? I assume gray market protections to eliminate cross border purchases.
Anyone know if B&M pricing on these is the same as the Acoustic Sounds mail order? I didn't see any territory restrictions.
meat is another perfect example of this, do you see those f*cking prices now?
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