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108.131.85.50
I wont single them out (price-wise) unfairly, since they've been around and apparently they have their following. I am however interested if they really live up to their reputation? Any reviews that really come close to describing their sound - short of listening them? Thx.
“Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn’t. - Charles Bukowski
Follow Ups:
I've listened to a wide gamut of speakers - grew up with B&W 801 Matrix and later Nautilus 800. I've owned Spendor and Quad and Thiel speakers, along with professional monitors when I went the self powered route. I just purchased the SHL5+. These are some of the best speakers I've ever heard.
Having compared them the to 7ES3, the SHL5 are a more modern sounding speaker in the 'plus' iteration (which was just recently released) -- they have lovely balance and a beautifully extended top end to now accompany their famously natural midrange. Exceptional sounding speakers.
Yes, they are expensive. The Monitor 30.1 in particular is extremely expensive relative to it's UK price. I was able to get a good price on the SHL5+ that is commensurate with it's excellent sound and top tier build quality - the miters, radius, bevels, edges are pristine and the finish is very well done.
The Harbeths also have an old school look that I just love and that work better with our home decor than an alien pod looking speaker. This is also part of their charm and appeal.
My .02 anyway.
What Lokie said. I'm thinking that acoustic music, classical in particular, is best suited for the strengths of this speaker. I'd love to give them a whirl.
Agree wholeheartedly that certain Harbeth speakers, such as the c7ES3 and possibly the old SHL5 are best suited to acoustical music. That was certainly the case with the 7ES3.
The SHL5+ is truly a different animal and is voiced as a more neutral transducer with excellent high frequency extension and very well controlled bass. It has an ultra fast character for great performance on transients, air and attack. Notes are nicely defined and imagery is much better than the compact 7. It's great with rock and electronic music, in my experience.
I think HL5 is one of the best British speaker ever made. I much prefer it to B&W, because it can sing unlike B&W!
Edits: 01/31/15
Why is not OK with you to comment on a manufacturer as opposed to one model? Can't people choose what they want to post? Besides speakers from one manufacturer almost always have a very similar voicing.
Another waste of bandwidth by you. Thanks!
E
T
nt
nt
“Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn’t. - Charles Bukowski
TY y'all.
Maybe what this country needs is free two years of college.
("Free" is a nebulous term, unless the teachers are working for free.)
:)
Similar to "free" healthcare?
Two highly regarded audio stores in the SF bay area tried to sell them for some time and both stopped selling them with few sales because they had too many complaints that they were too "ugly" - i.e.,too little WAF. They are undoubtedly fine speakers and external beauty is in the eyes or ears of the beholder in any case.
.... to sell $4k worth of parts for $100k, Harbeth's Alan Shaw has found a way to sell really old technology for a really high price. The genius is in the business plan as opposed to the product.
I don't think the price is ridiculous given that they use some proprietary drivers...but so does Reference 3a and they cost significantly less and are significantly lower in coloration. THere are similarly priced speakers with what I think is higher overall performance.
have you had issues with the Ref 3a mid drivers being pushed- say over 90 dbs?
Yep. I think they have that overstated HF often found it many Brit monitors. I had a pair of HLP-3. Bass of course wasn't much as they were small. I used one of those sealed Sweedish Subs with it. Audio Control. That was a nice little sub. I powered them with a Citation V and later passive bi-amped adding an Advent 300 receiver for the HF and then a little Rotel power amp(30X2)
I've heard any of the newer and larger units. Again no big deal for me.
E
T
I suspect, but am only guessing is that this topic comes up so much because Harbeth pricing is perceived to be a bit out on the General range.
I would love to hear a pair next to my vintage chart wells, but unless a used pair comes along highly discounted I don't think it will ever happen
On a more positive note I hope the market continues to support first world manufacturers and I think it's bad taste to claim they are not made in the UK without any basis for the statement
Makers should always disclose where their products are made. For example I have heard that despite their luxury brand positioning classe is made in China.
Not to bash that brand but it's the first one that comes to mind
I sure wish they cost less, but I listen almost exclusively to classical music, and my number-one priority is reproducing believable instrumental tone colors. My Compact 7s do this in spades. That they also produce a wonderful soundstage, good dynamics, etc. are just a bonus.
-Bob
Please explain to me how a colored, inaccurate speaker can exhibit natural timbre! Could it be that the extra timbre you are hearing that you think is something other speakers are missing is actually an artificial construct of the speaker itself? Dont get me wrong there is something comforting about the Harbeth sound, the speaker itself just adds too much to my ears.
nt
So, a system ignites memories and strikes emotional chords in one individual but not in another...
I have no problem understanding that. Do you?
"So, a system ignites memories and strikes emotional chords in one individual but not in another...I have no problem understanding that. Do you? "
Nope, not at all. Once I realized that my entire spend/sell cycle was based on me trying to get the sound I remember from the old Capehart console I grew up with...well, it became easier to settle on a system. Of course, if I went back and listened to that same console system now, I'd be disappointed. But it's the memory of it I love.
So now I have a tube amp driving a couple of Harbeth Compact 7-ES3 speakers and I'm pretty happy. The Harbeths were pricey, even when I bought them a few years back, and they've gotten a little pricier since. But since I don't ever expect to replace them, I'm just amortizing the cost over the next 20 years or so...
"Do you need those light bulbs on your stereo?" - my niece, looking at a Dynaco ST-70
Edits: 02/01/15 02/01/15
Of course I have no problem with what you state nor do I object.
Do you have trouble understanding the difference between perception and measurable reality?
I understand that perceptions and measurable realities seem to be at odds with one another, at times.Maybe we haven't yet mastered the art of measuring?
Edits: 01/20/15
All dynamic loudspeakers are colored - THD is above 1%. They are all uniquely inaccurate. Harbeth's coloration is better suitable to classical. We all pick our poisons. For real truth of timbre, go to original Quad ESL.
I don't know how. I just know what I hear, and the Harbeths create the most natural-sounding likeness of what I hear in the concert hall. I don't find them "comforting." I find them realistic. I don't know how they can be "colored" and "inaccurate" if they sound like the real thing to me. I don't want to hear what's on recordings. I want to hear what I hear in the concert hall, as closely as possible. That's what Harbeths deliver.
-Bob
The only person you have to answer to is you. All loudspeakers - every damn one of them - is inaccurate.
Show me the speaker that has 0 distortion at 100dB, perfect phase, flat response full bandwidth (polar response is the standard) without deviation from the left and right speakers (ie; pair matching is perfect) perfect macro micro and mid dynamics, zero deviation of any kind anywhere.
So once you accept the fact that the speaker isn't accurate you can now put a big ole smile on your face and buy a speaker that makes you happy. You have now accepted the fact that you will be making various trades - a little more XYZ at the expense of ABC - someone else will want more ABC than what the Harbeths can muster but probably won't have the XYZ that Harbeth fans find to be the magic elixir.
And the reality is there are so many fans of different "truths" on audio forums and in the press. One guy will tell you it MUST be an active boxed speaker like ATC, someone else will tell you it must be a horn, a single driver, someone else will say it must be a Panel, a transmission line, must be pistonic speakers, an omni-directional and each will espouse the supreme accuracy of the technology. It must be this or that tweeter, it must use scanspeak, it must be SET friendly....
The truth is that the horn has some strengths, the omni-directionals do some amazing thing, the transmission line or single driver can't be bettered. And then each will trot out a measurement of some aspect of the speaker that does indeed look better than the rest of the field - they target the thing that makes it look better as some sort of evidence of their superior preference.
And all of that crap falls away if when you audition the Harbeths versus highly touted XYZ the Harbeth makes the musicians come alive in your room when XYZ doesn't.
I don't want to hear what's on recordings. I want to hear what I hear in the concert hall, as closely as possible. That's what Harbeths deliver.
-BobAny Deviation from the recording is coloration (distortion), so you may like what it does, accuracy is not it ...
Regards..
Edits: 01/19/15
"Any Deviation from the recording is coloration (distortion), so you may like what it does, accuracy is not it ..."
Right. And that's okay with me! After listening to live music and recorded music for more than 50 years, I can safely say I don't really know or care what "accuracy" sounds like. But I do love what music sounds like. Besides, as RGA points out above, what speaker has ever achieved no "deviation from the recording"?
-Bob
As I mentioned, all dynamic loudspeakers are very colored with high harmonic distortion - as compared to, let's say, amplifiers. There is no accurate dynamic loudspeaker in existence. They all deviate from the recording in their own unique ways. Harbeth is my kind of poison - but for real truth of timbre, I trust Quad ESL.
...as if factual, that these things are "colored and inaccurate". My opinion is very much otherwise, and yes, it's only an opinion. All I can say is that no other speaker I've had differentiates recordings as well as these, and I'm unaware of any better criterium for neutrality. Again, yes, just one person's judgement.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
...to determine *"accuracy?" I always wanted to know, should we trust the professional reviewers to tell us that. Or should we go with what it pleases our perception of accuracy?
“Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn’t. - Charles Bukowski
My "perception of accuracy" is based upon both reason and emotional response. First (and perhaps foremost), my perception is based upon that which sounds most like music to my ears.
Following quickly on the heel steps of a purely emotional response comes reason. If reviewers who are also recording engineers (John Atkinson or John Marks, for example) say that certain speakers transmit sounds that closely resemble those heard on the recording dates they are familiar with, I would give their opinions serious consideration - even if my ears are telling me I should do otherwise.
A combination of trust and mistrust (toward myself and others) provides a system of checks and balances, so to speak. The "truth", for me, lies somewhere in between my subjective perceptions and literal reality. What I think to be true is not absolutely true.
Great explanation! Thx!
“Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn’t. - Charles Bukowski
Within its limitations, Harbeth's P3ESR is a lovely speaker. JA and I have praised it in Stereophile; a simple Stereophile site search will turn that up.
But for about four times the money, you can buy Vivid's entry-level 2-way, and be in an entirely different class altogether.
Sometimes, you do get more when you pay more.
JM
PHOTO CREDIT: Larry Greenhill/Stereophile
and the ones from Vivid ... well i have no words ... what a beauty !
Kind regards,
bg
what kind of amp are you talking about, equal in cost or double to get something to get those breathing?
I used a borrowed Einstein tube integrated, but later I also tried with Luxman tube separates.
Drive is not an issue, I think. But they are very revealing, and you want a nice-sounding amp.
jm
any experiences with the newer class D technology? Bel Canto Black?
jm
I'll scan your web site every now and then if that changes, it will call me.
I liked the compact 7 a lot more than the 2. Could listen to them forever without fatigue. That was twice the price I guess. Someday I will listen to the Vivids.
Regards
Bill
Do you like B&W?
That was the only tubed amp I had a chance to try.
Such a nice experience--no drama, no problems, the tube bias hardly moved the meter needles, built like a tank.
jm
Not my model for sure. Dont know about other models.
Cheers
Bill
I think that RGA is completely wrong. I really dislike B & Ws and I thought that the Vivids did some things better than just about any speaker I have ever heard.
The Vivids are better but there are similarities from what I hear. I think a B&W fan would like Vivid and would feel they're a step up. But if you kind of hate B&W then there is a good chance the Vivid won't impress you as much as you would hope at the premium dollars.
There is a dealer here in HK that carries some nice tube amps from Triode and Co and I wouldn't mind seeing how the Vivid line sounds with those amps versus the amps and the Acoustic Zen Crescendo.
Speaking of the Acoustic Zen Crescendo - those are some mighty nice sounding floorstanders which normally I don't love.
Sure , once you become detached from reality stereophile fed zombie and have nothing to lose get Vivid speakers and immerse yourself in ambient of alien music .Sometimes it's worth to pay 4 times the price to realize you're an alien in need of rehab ..
Just curious.
jm
I heard them (the big ones) years ago on AK fest in Detroit and also couple other shows I don't remember either RMAF or elsewhere. I know that show conditions can be far from optimal and one should not form opinion about a product based on the audition. I asked the guys who exhibited them how happy they were with the sound they were getting and they were pretty happy actually and pleased so I had no further questions. It was one of the worst high end dreck I heard to date, simply boring garbage and the speakers looked like a sad, plastic caricature of B&W Nautilus in the 5th element fashion. I was not familiar with the name so I laughed and thought that it must be some Chinese knock-off trying to capitalize on famous brand idea. Some sort of white van speakers for Detroit's rednecks. I didn't even check the price thinking it can't cost more than $2-3k ....including 300% of importer's markup.
Now , it was some years ago. I will not miss the chance to hear them on Axpona show should they exhibit. If I change my opinion I will post my thoughts and apologies if due since I'm badmouthing them for the second time;)
Regards, W
I got great sound out of them, and JA agreed. He measured two of them in-room.
A Vivid speaker was Stereophile's Joint Product and Overall Component of the Year 2014.
So, if your last hearing was years ago, the new models might appeal to you more.
And I doubt that you heard a system set up by importer Philip O'Hanlon. He does great setups, and I think he has learned not to get into situations where others tie his hands and make him use equipment that does not partner well.
If I came into a huge amount of money, I'd buy a nice harpsichord, buy a nice grand piano, get my violin rebuilt, and then buy some big Vivid loudspeakers--although I could easily live with great speakers from Wilson Audio, Wilson Benesch, Sonus Faber, Aerial, and others.
JM
Well , you may be right that it might have been sub optimal setup and after first disappointment I was prejudiced. Some people supposedly can listen for the "right stuff" and judge the speakers even if the room , auxiliary equipment is sub-optimal but I'm not one of them. I'm not even that jaded and demanding. Surely, I would expect something truly special from 5 figure $$$ speakers but even then I know the reality of the market and technology restrictions. For now, I have to take your word that these are world class speakers and look forward for another audition.
Rgrds, W
Not my stair landing.
jm
@ JM, Pic :Such a high platform will change tweeter height, listening actually will be off axis, vertically, darker presentation ...?
Edits: 01/20/15
Mostly to save the parquet floor, I had all three Vivid loudspeaker pairs as they passed through here in sequence on garden pavers from Home Depot, and I literally use a laser to set up speakers and I get measuring help when needed, and I found that at least for me, the garden pavers helped and JA did not object to them at all.That said, I think that, without having had an opportunity to measure, just eyeball, the G1 Giyas I spent time with at a dealer's had the tweeter a little high, while the G3 and G4 I have seen seemed to have the tweeter a little low.
That wood block, whatever it is--redwood? cedar? juniper?--in that picture seems higher than needed to provide strain relief for inflexible speaker cables, so perhaps the intent is to raise the tweeter up.
That speaker to me looks like a Smurf attending a costume party dressed up as a Euro sign...
So don't go by me.
jm
Edits: 01/20/15
on another note, i was watching a car show today and they were restoring a Porsche 928, that overlooked supercar from the 80s. there is not one square part or straight line on the car. that picture of the Giya made me think of that car. got to drive various ones in the day, magnificent car.
Tom Collins
Yes...this topic seems to come up once a month. I have ignored these threads for the past decade (because I had never heard the speakers) but I can now post a response, having heard the speakers extensively at Capitol AudioFest 2014.
I can now attest that these speakers won't appeal to (most) audiophiles. They don't have zesty, exciting treble, a first row mid-range perspective and slamming bass. They don't do any of the things that audiophiles get excited about.
In fact, they are so self-effacing and "British" that they try not to announce their presence at all and simply hide behind the music they present. I never hear treble, mid-range and bass while listening to these. I don't really hear the speakers at all, but I do hear a truthfulness to music, especially to live, unamplified music and to the human voice...words, whether sung, hummed or spoken are this speaker's raison d'etre.
I heard much the same quality from the Quad ESL-57 speakers, Odyssey's Kismet speakers and a restored pair of Apogee Ribbon speakers which were all also being demonstrated at the Capitol Audiofest 2014.
There are some speakers that appeal to (typical) audiophiles and some that seem to move only music lovers. Presenting (and hiding behind) music seems to be the chief goal of Harbeth's designers and that's what the speakers do best.
Typical? Music lovers? Sounds a little biased with a touch of "Club" mentality. Everyone has their own take on what connects them to the music that they love...we ALL LOVE!! As for hiding behind the music...sounds like the difference between the two camps you were trying to identify can be seen as those who like to listen passively with their critical brains full on and those of us who listen with a passion and want to be part of the performance and get swept away. Hell, I went to a listening party once at a gentlemen's house who had a 100K setup but wouldn't play it louder than the average elevator music at Macy's! A lot of insanity abounds...it comes down to how we connect with the music. I need to be on stage with the band...and man o man, there is nowhere to hide up there:))
dave_b
Edits: 02/05/15
It's clear that we don't all value the same things when it comes to sound reproduction.I watch the AV showreports and read show reviews and I am invariably left scratching my head as to why the reviewers praise systems that I did not think were all that great and ignore systems that I found to be the bee's knees.
One thing that stands out to me is that "Hi-fi" reviewers tend to go for a "Hi-fi" sound...tinkly treble, electronic sounding mid-range and way too big bass.
That "sound" is anathema to me. I guess its fine with artificial music like much modern Pop and Rock but it completely falls apart with acoustic music, classical and jazz.
"Hi-fi" sounding components don't sound very realistic or close to the sound of live, unamplified music (to my ears). Instead of getting out of the way (of the music), they get in the way and impose their sonic signature over what's on the recording and everything being re-played.
Any time you can "hear" the treble, mid-range and bass as separate from the music it breaks the illusion of live performance that good recordings can create.
Any time you can "hear" what the tweeter is doing, what the mid-range driver is doing, what the bass drivers are doing, what the speaker is doing separate from what's on the recording (no matter how impressive it is) the illusion is lost.
Harbeths are voiced to support the illusion of live music. I think that will appeal only to people who have the reference of live music in mind, to those who know what it's supposed to sound like.
If the reference is something cooked up in a studio, I think "Hi-fi" speakers are a better option (and based on what I see and hear at shows, there are plenty of those to choose from).
Edits: 02/05/15 02/05/15
Fair...but still a little "Kool Aid" in nature! There are many things involved in what sort of sound you can achieve with various "HiFi" gear. Harberth is not the sole harbinger of truth. My fare is classical and jazz as well with frequent concert attendance. That said, sometimes I want to be up on that stage... Can you dig me??
dave_b
"Harberth is not the sole harbinger of truth."
Never said they were. There are many paths to "truth."
I have been impressed with many other speakers this past year...speakers which in their own way, following a different path, find their way to musical "truth" as well...I was really surprised and delighted by the Quad ESL 57 electrostats, Apogee Ribbon speakers, OMA mini horns, Odyssey Kismet speakers, Volti horn speakers, several Zu models, Audes tower speakers, Focal's Grand Utopia BE's, and Totem's Element Fire speakers. They all take a different path but the designers were aiming for the same place and the speakers all arrive at a musical illusion that suspends disbelief.
Understood ;))
dave_b
nt
I might listen to them when my listening room is finished, but what I see is that in the UK a pair of one of their speakers (HL5+) is $2,500 cheaper, 3379 GBP v. 7500 USD. Importer adds an extra layer of middleman I suppose. May sound great, but that's a huge price pop for me and I'd consider comparable U.S. domestic speakers first.
The P3 and C7 are about $300 more here than in the UK, which I imagine can be justified by the cost of shipping and promotion. The SHL5 and M30 are marked up about $2000, and that seems based on marketing.
Interestingly, to me, is that the inflation adjusted price of the C7 is about the same as when it was originally introduced 20 years ago. (There was a lower reintroductory price a few years later to kickstart the brand and the new distributor.)
I think they're all good value at UK prices.
I bought a pair of C7's new about 13 years ago.
They were $2000. Now they're $4000.
At the time their LS3/5a variant was about $1795. Now it's $2395.
So how come the C7's have doubled and the little speaker hasn't?
Good reviews. And market demand.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
I've told you more than once, the price you paid was an effort to help the new NA distributor get the brand established in the US. It was a sale price, a promotion, less than the UK price at the time, even though they didnt say so. Much earlier, I paid 1000 pounds, about $1650 at the time, because they were having a promotion in the UK. The original price was 1300 there and 2500 here. Only an audiophile would think a shoebox sized speaker at $2300 is fairly priced while complaining about the price of the C7.I paid $500 for new P3's 20 years ago. Now, I guess I'd have to pay 4 1/2 times as much for the new version.
Edits: 01/18/15
I like them a lot but other than the P3ESR (which is still pricey) I consider them quite a bit over priced in the U.S. market.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
you think handmade in England is cheap?
You think those cabinets are made in England?
Interesting.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
nt.
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
They'd like you to think that.
But not so.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
I copied and pasted this from the FAQ on the Harbeth site:
"100% of all Harbeth loudspeaker systems are designed and hand made in England, at the Harbeth factory in Lindfield by the same small team. Likewise, all Harbeth cabinets are made in the UK by experienced craftsmen."
I hope they wouldn't lie.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Live rate 1 GBP = 1.51 $US so 3379 GBP would trade for $5100. I suppose you could argue exchange rate historically since the speakers here now were made some other time, and of course goods prices are stickier than currency, but I don't think the GBP/$ has fluctuated that much, $0.25 or so over the last couple of years.
Some other type of "arbitrage" going on there.
Introduce an importer (necessary) and shipping, insurance, warranty service etc. and they like to get paid as well. Whether it's worth $2500 is up to the listener.
Try running a business some day that imports luxury goods.
As I have stated before, in general, for loudspeakers and components but not cables or accessories, if US retail MSRP is $10,000, the dealer gets 40 points off (but pays inland freight). That 40-point gross margin today is to some degree used up with discounts. Very few audio products can hold the line on retail prices. From the remainder the dealer has to pay the staff and keep the lights on and visit CES and perhaps exhibit at a regional audio show. And pay taxes and pay himself.
The importer gets paid $6000 for the product offered at retail for $10,000. Out of that $6000, the importer has to pay the manufacturer $4000 and also pay Customs, Insurance, Freight, Warehousing, Inventory Tax, Payroll, Advertising, and rent, utilities, and insurance on an office (or operate out of a home)...
The manufacturer gets paid $4000, but he has a factory to keep open and workers to pay (AFAIK, Harbeth makes its cabinets in-house, as does ATC) and so the direct cost of parts and labor is not usually more than $2000 for an imported speaker with a US MSRP of $10,000.
And pray tell, what kind of margins and costs do you think the fur business and the grand piano business run on? The fine-jewelry business?
How much do you think the stone in a $5000 engagement ring was worth when it was dug up in South Africa?
How much does the farmer get paid for Romaine lettuce or Fuji apples?
jm
No way Harbeth has 2K in manu cost for that model , not that it matters , i have nothing against them getting what the market will bare even if cost was only 50.00 ...
Regards ......
The importation of luxury goods adds an extra layer of cost on top of any domestic production/distribution of luxury goods (or Fuji apples or romaine lettuce) and it's up to the consumer to decide if they want domestic Honeycrisp or green leaf instead. Or, Devore, Joseph Audio, Avalon...
Aerial.
Their marketing would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Middle Ages, but, the products have excellent engineering, top-quality construction, and are very fairly priced.
Aerial's 5B with dedicated stands I believe is under $3000, and in some respects it obviously outperforms many imports in the $4000 to $5500 tier.
But if the other aspects are what one is focusing on, then paying extra for what you want is worth it--to them.
When the Editor of Steinway's classical-music lifestyle magazine asked me for a recommendation, we talked and he ended up--for his situation--choosing Aerial's 6. But when another person in that organization wanted a great speaker for his situation, he ended up with Harbeth P3ESRs. Both, last I heard, were very happy.
JM
Can you explain , this is a 2 way sealed cabinet , why the multiple peaks .....
> Can you explain, this is a 2 way sealed cabinet, why the multiple peaks
The single peak in the bass is due to the sealed-cabinet loading of the
woofer, the twin peaks in the upper midrange are due to the crossover,
which is more complex than is usually the case with a two-way design.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
The single peak in the bass is due to the sealed-cabinet loading of the
woofer, the twin peaks in the upper midrange are due to the crossover,
which is more complex than is usually the case with a two-way design.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Thanks for the response John.
nt
Are the 30.1's six grand in the U.S. and just over four grand in Canada?
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
Don't know that, but maybe smaller market, less demand, less greedy, urrr I mean lower overhead importer? Is the importer the same for US/Can? I assume gray market protections to eliminate cross border purchases.
Anyone know if B&M pricing on these is the same as the Acoustic Sounds mail order? I didn't see any territory restrictions.
meat is another perfect example of this, do you see those f*cking prices now?
they are very very quick, almost like electrostats,sounds is magnificent.
however that being said I think they are colored, warmish, also what I didn't like about them is I couldn't tell the difference when I was changing cables and equipment, the coloration is so much that it doesn't matter what you plug into it just IMHO.
are they worth it, probably if you don't like messing with speakers and equipment, not for audiophiles, but for music lovers instead.
Also for heavy music like metal, etc.. not so good, very good for Jazz IMHO.
"Music lover speakers" to me is code for... great mid-range. I think what the bigger Harbeths along with a few other brands/speakers, like Shindo, older Tannoy's and Spendor's get right is a "believable" mid range through the manipulation of the cabinet resonance. The thin walled strategy moves the vibration away from the mid range and clears things up.
So... if you love Jazz and other intimate music, it is more believable and therefor emotionally connecting. But this strategy can wreak havoc with bombastic, loud, full orchestra or bass heavy rock. Especially at sub 5 figure prices. In my humble opinion, most of the really beautiful instruments are in the mid range: oboe, human voice, acoustic string instruments, most of the piano, etc., etc.. So if you are going to make a compromise, getting the mid-range correct is high on a lot of people's list.
I have a pair each of SHL5's and Compact 7ES2's and I am very happy with them. To my ears they are VERY neutral (individual recordings each have their own character), open and detailed, and particularly are easy to listen to for long periods without fatigue- this is a selling point per the company and I can vouch for it, again, at least to my hearing. I DIDN'T like either pair in a larger room on the short wall with my chair on the other side- they sounded distant and unengaging, and I was on the verge of selling them, 'til I put them in a smaller back room on the long wall with a much shorter listening distance, and here they sound absolutely lovely. Clearly they are not ideally suited to all environments, and possibly this accounts at least partially for the wide range of opinions.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
That's the thing with European speakers in most of US living rooms.Take them to the bedroom and it's another story. They are usually very overpriced but what other choice exists?
As for reviews, read a lot of them and you will start to hear what you want and are conditioned to hear.
My friend once had a choice between speaker A and B. He liked the B more, all people (nonaudiophools) visiting the home when asked opinion liked the B more but he decided that since A had great reviews and were from fashionable brand there must be something he is not hearing and the other people don't know what they are talking about (nonaudiophools) so he kept A.
that used to be my impression whenever I heard them BUT I'm probably going deaf and for some time now I use "floppy" Celestion SL600 with old Avantgarde subs and French SS amp. It's absolutely lovely and I think I would like Harbeth's as well.
As one poster said ,the following is so strong that you're not going to loose any money on resale if you buy carefully.
Here is a review that best describes them. BTW,I am a big fan of Harbeths,they are just not a speaker for the bell and whistle crowd!
http://www.hifizine.com/2011/12/harbeth-p3esr/
You have to listen for yourself. I bought a used pair based on all of the reviews and positive comments. They were not for me, and I sold them shortly after they arrived (Compact 7 ES-2).
The good news is I bought them right, did not take a loss on the transaction, and won't need to buy another pair.
You might love them, Only you can decide.
Harbeth lovers will tell you why they are great; those not in love will talk about their weaknesses. This is axiomatic. I find them quite accurate and neutral, tube friendly, but a bit too "polite". I have heard many and when i first heard them, it was love at first sight, but i've changed my mind a bit after hearing and owning other speakers. You have to listen to see if they suit your tastes.
If you are a measurements person, several have been reviewed over the years in Stereophile, but i don't recall which ones. As i recall, they all measured well for their type (size, drivers, etc.).
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
I couldnt agree with you more about it being a preference issue. I think much of what I consider to be problems arise from the cabinet construction. Also I dont like ported speakers which really narrows down the field for me personally.
This is about the 100th post I have seen with this title. Seriously.
Just go listen. There are a thousand reviews online too.
I hear they sound good with Pono!
Cheers.
Harbeths are very easy speakers to drive. Other than this I find them without merit. I like neutral, linear speakers and they are just the opposite. Lots of color and texture with a tendency to make everything sound nicer than it should. I do not agree with the use of thin walled active cabinets. They sound like British food tastes.
Not like Chicken Tikka Masala, for sure.
Cheers
Bill
Throw us another bone here. What exactly does "British food" taste like nowadays?
Cockles and mussels alive, alive-o?
Here is some very typical british food:
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