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Hello All. I'm looking to upgrade my sound. I live in a 35' geodesic dome. The dome is built of triangles interlocked in hexagons and pentagons. Its 5/8 of a sphere, and mostly open, inside. About 1/4 of the bottom floor is closed off, and the second floor is an open loft. The inside of the dome is well insulated and sheetrocked. Because there aren't many flat surfaces, the sound, inside is pretty amazing. I can be upstairs, near the rear wall of the building, and whisper, and to someone sitting on my living room couch, near 30' away, and on the first floor, it sounds, quite literally, as if I were sitting next to them! My current speakers, a pair of Laney CT-15 monitors sit on the front edge of the second floor at opposite sides of the dome (I have thought about just adding something like DCM time windows and playing both sets at once). They do a good job of filling the roughly 17,500 cubic feet of open space, inside with lovely sound. Thing is, I was spoiled by years of living with magnapans, and I miss that crystalline clarity. I had to finally give them up because I just couldn't get proper placement in this building. I'm looking for ideas on how best to get that airy transparency and clarity again. Design ideas for building or maybe some different commercially made items to try different ideas? Any thoughts?
Follow Ups:
Domes are a bugger - that's why concert halls and studios aren't shaped that way. ;)
Read pp. 182-183 of Knudson & Harris' "Acoustical Designing In Architecture".
There are two basic problems: one, poor diffusion; and two, foci. These problems can be mitigated by placing appropriate convex diffusors on the walls.
Also, just for fun, see:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=general&m=691456
and pay particular attention to Geoffkait's post, where he writes:
"all things being equal the same audio system would sound much better if it were inside a geodesic dome rather than an ordinary room of a house."
:)
Interesting thread. He hit the nail on the head with his comments about the dome. One reason I built the dome in the first place is simply that everything in nature moves in circles. Mankind seems the exception. The sound generated in this space is, well, detailed. I've always thought it was because of the many triangle shaped flat areas of the structure, none of which are parallel to any other. My feeling is sound is reflected in all directions, and that stops and eliminates many (if not most) of the reflective properties of conventional rooms, allowing that detail to come through. The diffusion of the sound is seemingly enhanced by placing my speakers as far apart as they are. Having the sound caroming around the front wallm from both sides, provides a centered sound stage. Just up in the air too far. I'm building some new speakers to add into the mix, and hopefully bring the sound stage back down to the first floor, while still keeping the large, spacious sound of the big speakers upstairs, when I want it.
While it might be an interesting experiment to place a sound source at the rear of the dome, upstairs, and hear the sound quality in the living room, I already know that simply by moving away from the wall really lessens the effect of the curved surface, and the sound quality quickly deteriorates.
Thanks for the replies, guys. First, the guitar speaker is my handiwork. The wood is 1" thick red alder, finished with a solar-lux stain and varnish. The Eminence Legend speaker in a tuned cabinet sounds pretty darn good, too. I like the idea of putting a single mono signal pointed straight up. Though I have no measuring instruments,for it, it would be interesting to see what differences in what I call the "sound field" of this place occured. I've always figured the reflective properties of the building were the cause of the way the sound disperses so easily throughout. I thought that "live" meant dealing with resonances that distorted the sound. I don't get that. Good clean sound, just up in the air more than I like. I'm just a retired sailor, and reading and studying to build a first, efficient set of speakers has been almost enough to make my head explode! Though I was an engineer, it was a different sort than most of whom I'd guess hang out here. I was a merchant marine chief engineer.... which meant I got to hang out with two EMD diesels (locomotive engines) for 12 hours a day. like living with 32 .44 magnums going off 950 times a minute. Using the most and best ear protection I could find is probably the only reason I CAN still worry about how things sound.
I have decided that for a first attempt to tame this place, I'm going to build a small but good set of speakers, and place them just under the TV. I plan to remove the cabinet doors under the set and put a sub in that space with a cloth grill over the opening. That will, I hope, bring the sound stage back down to this level and provide some directionality, while still utilizing the larger monitors (with their big horns, as someone suggested) to fill the dome. Its a good first step, and I thank you all for the suggestions.
When you are hearing distant voices nearby, it is the effect of the "ceiling" approximating an ellipse, with its pair of foci. The "Whispering Gallery" in the Congressional building in DC is an example of this. You could use this to create a very localized sound presence if you placed a source at one focus and sat at the other.
It sounds to me like the reverberant field plays an especially large role in your space, and imo that's a good thing, as the same is true of a good recital hall.
So you might look at speakers that do a particularly good job of directing spectrally-correct energy off-axis, in particular vertically as well as horizontally.
Duke
Me being a dealer makes you leery?? It gets worse... I'm a manufacturer too.
It would be interesting to hear what would happen if you set your equipment to mono and aimed a speaker at the center of the ceiling, trying different distances from the ceiling.
Andy:
One of my girlfriends lived in a "geodesic upside-down culvert". Her mother, asleep, upstairs, could hear us renewing our friendship! It was alarming.
Though I have no precise suggestion to offer, I wonder if a Quad '63 (or later), with its delay-line, might provide a localized or more localized sound-source?
Jeremy
Omni-directional speakers?
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
If you can't beat the room, join it.
You could try hanging some tapestries around.
Seems a little eccentric I know, but it may suit the round house if done tastefully.
Sounds like a cool home, certainly nothing like that in my neighborhood :)
Are you looking to fill the space with sound or trying to find a spot to sit and enjoy in front of the speakers?
If you want sound throughout maybe look at on-wall speakers. Monitor Audio, known for vivid mids/highs even has some you can design a picture or pattern on the grill. Artison also makes some interesting products, and used to have in-wall subs. I use a set of their older speakers in a work out area, they sound really good. But most speaker manufacturer offer either on-wall or in-wall lines.
I suspect you may have the same trouble with electrostats as you did with the Maggies. My friend has some Canton speakers, and I've heard a few of their models, they have a live, in the room character, one of the most open box speakers I've heard. There's also Golden Ear who has models with built in amps for bass and more of a cloth enclosure.
If reflection is an issue, consider good horn speakers. If still available the JBL Studio or LS are nice, if budget permits look at the Array series that are outstanding. There are also more traditional speakers who use a wave guide on the tweeter to focus the highs more, like Revel, I'm aware of.
I will take a look at the Canton speakers, here in a moment. Speakers in the walls, however, are out. Except for two walls that enclose the spare bedroom and bath,on the lower floor, there are no walls except for the outer wall of the house. I don't think that the space is all that live, either, as it seems more to be the reflective structure, itself. No walls to block sound that is bounced in every direction, as none of the triangles that make the structure are parallel to any other. I was just listening to Gary Moore over some old voice of music speakers I was given, and realized that I need to move the sound stage back down toward the first floor... That won't be easy, because of the way I have to use the space. Here's a photo of my system, built in under the stairs that run along the only wall. Seating is against the outer wall of the dome, facing in, and there just isn't a lot of room for speakers along the inner area. That's the major traffic route through the place. I think I'm going to have to do some experimenting with smaller, bookshelf sized to lower the soundstage, while keeping larger speakers (I've grown to like the sound of 15" guitar speakers in a couple of cabs I've built for friends), possibly some DIY 3-ways up top. I'll just have to play for awhile. Thanks for the input.
Right on, Gary Moore. If you like the sound of "guitar" speakers it's likely you will enjoy Zu Audio speakers. They are very efficient and I don't think I've heard a speaker play as loud and be just as clean as they were at lower volume. Last I knew their drivers were custom built by Eminence. They sell direct and have a 60 day audition where you can return if not happy.
Thanks! I will look into Zu speakers. I was thoroughly enjoying Gary Moore's last recorded performance, at Montreaux, on a fairly recently released blue ray using my digital Sony amp (I'm set up to use either my analog amp or my digital amp through any of four sets of speakers via a switching system) and was, again, transported by the sustain and power of the upper registers of the Les Paul through a pair of Marshall stacks. I play a little guitar, myself. I first tripped to the quality of the Eminence speakers when I found that they were the speaker of choice that Fender used (voiced to their specs) in their "Jazz king" and "Steel King" solid state amps. The Eminence Legend 15" in a tuned cabinet makes for a great jazz speaker, coupled with my tube amps. Here's a photo of one of my cabs...
I'm still stuck on the problem of properly re-creating my sound stage and listening area. This thread, and reading here, has given me new thoughts and new urges to make the changes. It has been too easy for a long time to just close my eyes, lean back in my recliner and enjoy the sound, though it seems a bit above me. Kinda like looking uphill at a stage! I'm thinking I will first try adding a second pair of speakers and maybe a sub-woofer to change the position of the sound stage. Almost anything I can do to improve that will be easier than changing my living area. Again, thanks for the input and the speaker tips, gents!
Wow! That is absolutely beautiful!
Great Cabinets! Are those your handiwork? If so what wood type is used? Love the dovetail effect! I have some possible speaker projects upcoming.
If you like the flavor of 15" pro-type drivers, check out the Spatial Hologram 1 Turbo. Open baffle design with 2-15"ers per side.
Man, I like the looks and reviews for those Sonic Holograms! I've already mailed that company for more info! Thanks a bunch for that!
I currently have the M2 Turbo in my HT set-up. This room is average in size and for anything much larger, I would certainly consider moving up to the M1 mentioned. 95 db efficiency gives me a nice sense of ease and ample headroom using a 40 watt tube amp.
Welcome! Andy- nice pic.
It sounds to me like your room is way too live. Therefore, unless you want to damp the room significantly, I would opt for near-field listening using monitor speakers with a subwoofer. I would listen no farther than six or seven feet from small monitor speaker placed well out into the room so that room reflections are delayed sufficiently so as not to interfere with imaging and soundstage. Then I would augment bass with a subwoofer placed behind my listening position at approximately the same distance to my ears as the monitors in front. I think it would be best if the subwoofer is placed against a wall. Perhaps multiple subs would be better, but in my listening room I found that one sub was better.
Good luck,
John Elison
A dome is considered to be one of the more difficult acoustic spaces in which one might attempt to set up a stereo. "Crystalline Clarity" is something you may never achieve there - unless you invest in a good set of electrostatic headphones.I might try out a pair of Magnepan MMGs (w/ couple of good subwoofers, perhaps) within the *in home trial/refund/upgrade* period in order to assess dipole performance in your unusual living space. Upgrade to a bigger model if all seems well.
Also, I'd check out the omnis and the polys: Direct Acoustics, Ohm Acoustics, Decware, Shahinian, etc.., because some of them do work well in large, unusual, and open spaces.
Edits: 01/16/15
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